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  1. #11
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    So how did you finally teach youself Guitar? Did you follow some system? I usually just stopped liking it, brcause I couldn't see myself practicing for long enough to play the types of music I wanted. The path seemed longer and more arduous than I would I ever thought (Plus, I got interested in something else).

    Actually, I also got a book called Speed Mathematics, I used to be really fast. Now I make mistakes even on the simplest calulations. Have you used Harry Loraine's system for memory also?

    I still link and chain, once in a while, but these systems take practice to keep up.

    You're a geek like me huh?! I took apart and put back together more things than I can remember. My parents didn't usually get upset (except for the time I took apart the front door lock and couldn't put it back quite right).

    Let me know how your latest endevor goes. I have just recently baught a bunch of the "Understanding Yourself and Others" series books, as well as Gift's DIffering. I hope this works out a little better than my excursions into Freud's Theories and NLP.
    I had already completed a decade of piano lessons by then, so I pretty much cheated. I knew so much music theory it was just a solid hour of thinking about the new organization of musical relationships on the different instrument... then months of labor trying to teach my finger muscles... then repeat the process once I understand more about the guitar. I don't play the guitar that well, to be honest, I'm just mediocre. But I can learn any song, it'll just take me a longer time than most b/c I don't actually know the "rules" I just thought about it a lot and figured it out as I went along.

    I'll reply to the other stuff later I am soo bad at procrastinating I have a paper due that I have... oh... 127 words completed so far. oops.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I'll reply to the other stuff later I am soo bad at procrastinating I have a paper due that I have... oh... 127 words completed so far. oops.
    No kidding. I counted 9 posts from you in under 3 hours, 5 of them after this one.

    Not that I'm to talk. I have 4 more online lectures to watch.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #13
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    The journalistic questions are easy. (Who, what, when, where?)

    • What about gaining a new skill/habbit (not a new degree)?
    • Like playing a musucal instrument or a new foreign language (I have started and quit piano, violin, clarinet, and trumpet, and have failed at learning several foreign languages to the level of fluency)?
    • Learning to dance (I tried swing dance lessons for a while, but not happy with the progress)?
    The above list does not look like classical NT type thought processes, only maybe when you're young trying to be "popular"

    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    More classically intelectual goals:
    • Building the habbit of speaking more loudly (life-long goal)?
    • Becomming more organized (another life-long goal)?
    I can understand these as they are directed at achieving the NT systems.

    The question I'd pose as an NT, is why would I waste my time on such pursuits? The less intellectual goals you present seem to be an effort to conform and fit into non NT ideals and goals.

    Now if you said, do you analyze music and look for the balance and layering of rifts (And technically break this art down into a scientific process)... then I would think this is NT.

    I thought NT was systems building to achieve a useful outcome, not to achieve group conformity. I didn't think an NT outcome was to seek pleasure, as it lacks purpose?

  4. #14
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    The above list does not look like classical NT type thought processes, only maybe when you're young trying to be "popular"



    I can understand these as they are directed at achieving the NT systems.

    The question I'd pose as an NT, is why would I waste my time on such pursuits? The less intellectual goals you present seem to be an effort to conform and fit into non NT ideals and goals.

    Now if you said, do you analyze music and look for the balance and layering of rifts (And technically break this art down into a scientific process)... then I would think this is NT.

    I thought NT was systems building to achieve a useful outcome, not to achieve group conformity. I didn't think an NT outcome was to seek pleasure, as it lacks purpose?
    I think you're missing that many NTs value things that are valued by lots of people. So it's not group conformity, it's expanding yourself in areas that interest you. I think, in fact, that an NT who only seeks after intellectual goals is one who is either a) less mature or b) has noticeable areas of weakness in their life, and are "playing it safe" by sticking to where you're comfortable.

    I'm an NT who obviously likes reading, researching, etc. But I also played varsity sports in high school, took piano lessons for a decade, etc. My identity is not solely defined by my brain. Doesn't it seem like a "holier than thou" attitude to diss things that aren't stereotypically NT? It implies that things such as arts or socializing are inferior to intellectual pursuits. They're different. Not better.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  5. #15
    Member Prometheus's Avatar
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    Most people would like to do well on everything. NTs will try to achieve this with systems.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I think you're missing that many NTs value things that are valued by lots of people. So it's not group conformity, it's expanding yourself in areas that interest you. I think, in fact, that an NT who only seeks after intellectual goals is one who is either a) less mature or b) has noticeable areas of weakness in their life, and are "playing it safe" by sticking to where you're comfortable.

    I'm an NT who obviously likes reading, researching, etc. But I also played varsity sports in high school, took piano lessons for a decade, etc. My identity is not solely defined by my brain. Doesn't it seem like a "holier than thou" attitude to diss things that aren't stereotypically NT? It implies that things such as arts or socializing are inferior to intellectual pursuits. They're different. Not better.
    Fair enough, but you sitting around playing the guitar is just stopping you from acquiring the huge amounts of information that exists to be understood.

    Probably there is also a Male / Female slant to all this, Although I guess there are NT's I know that do some musical stuff to offset the focus on intellectual things they do day in and day out.

    Problem I would see with learning an instrument or whatever, just what purpose would it serve? Why not just listen to some music rather than spend ages trying to play it?

    Admittedly, a while ago I saw deep space nine (or whatever it is called) and saw the BORG... and thought... holly sh*t I've become like them... haven't changed though... just know myself better.

  7. #17
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veneti View Post
    Fair enough, but you sitting around playing the guitar is just stopping you from acquiring the huge amounts of information that exists to be understood.

    Probably there is also a Male / Female slant to all this, Although I guess there are NT's I know that do some musical stuff to offset the focus on intellectual things they do day in and day out.

    Problem I would see with learning an instrument or whatever, just what purpose would it serve? Why not just listen to some music rather than spend ages trying to play it?

    Admittedly, a while ago I saw deep space nine (or whatever it is called) and saw the BORG... and thought... holly sh*t I've become like them... haven't changed though... just know myself better.
    Well, if your primary goal in life is to gain intelligence, then I respond to you with this:

    Preschoolers who took singing and keyboard lessons scored 80% higher on object-assembly tests than students at the same pre-school who did not have the music lessons.

    In a study of medical school applicants, 66% of the music majors who applied to medical school were admitted, the highest percentage of any group. Only 44% of the biochemistry majors were admitted.

    The very best engineers and technical designers in the Silicon Valley industry are, nearly without exception, practicing musicians.

    Plato once said "...music is a more potent instrument than any other for education..." now scientists know why. Music , they believe, trains the brain for higher forms of thinking. After eight months of musical training, 3 year olds were expert puzzle masters, scoring 80% higher than their playmates did in spatial intelligence-the ability to visualize the world accurately. This skill later translates into mathematica/conceptual and engineering skills.

    "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the rest of musical perception." - Albert Einstein on his Theory of Relativity.
    I mean... I don't know where you've been living to have never heard this, but music is pretty frickin' useful.

    However, my bigger problem with your position is that you don't appear to value anything beyond brain growth. How old are you? I'm trying to figure out if I should virtually smack you upside the head and tell you to get out and experience life a little bit (if you're old enough that you should know better) or be more forgiving because you're a young NT who hasn't learned this life lesson yet: life is more than your intelligence. EVEN if you are an NT.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #18
    Senior Member Veneti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Well, if your primary goal in life is to gain intelligence, then I respond to you with this:



    I mean... I don't know where you've been living to have never heard this, but music is pretty frickin' useful.

    However, my bigger problem with your position is that you don't appear to value anything beyond brain growth. How old are you? I'm trying to figure out if I should virtually smack you upside the head and tell you to get out and experience life a little bit (if you're old enough that you should know better) or be more forgiving because you're a young NT who hasn't learned this life lesson yet: life is more than your intelligence. EVEN if you are an NT.
    Statistics, Statistics and damned lies.

    If you are saying that music helps stimulate the right side of the brain and allows greater connections with the left then I can see some common ground.
    But this is where the scientific evidence should present its findings. Not actually by doing a survey of what these people did when they were young... (Every kid at my school played the recorder for some lessons)(But kids from a more privileged background did music lessons - I think you may have a huge socio economic issue as there is a high correlation with occupation and parental achievement). Where I live 70% of professionals will have gone fishing as a child... the fish have it.

    I don't actually see playing music as an overly creative process, and as such it would be expected that an NT would be able and disciplined enough to be good at it. (I'd say Suduko and other puzzles would provide more stimulus as a function of time).

    If they did some worthwhile research they should look at children who are really into sports and analyze the ones who are say left footed and right handed which I believe seriously utilizes both sides of the brain (or vice versa).

    So is music important, yes, as a leisure activity if that’s your thing. I've never seen any evidence that shows it is a better activity than many other pursuits if we talk about creativity/intellect.

    Anyway, good luck with your music writing.

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