[NT] s(t)imulated vs. zarc: ENTJs vs. ENTPs <split>

[digesthisickness]

The INFs might not be the only ones who have noticed this but they're likely more the only ones who will CARE to tell you. NTs won't bother. You (+everyone) can take care of yourself.

wrong. i care enough to hope he doesn't waste another keystroke on your foolishness. choosing instead to let it speak for itself.

 

[simulatedworld]

I think I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't, here.

No matter what I say or do, she has some new crazy explanation for it. She's literally telling me that she knows me better than I know myself.

If I'm completely unable to even explain my own thoughts, how can I say anything meaningful? I'm just going to get corrected about what I think, again.

I've tried to explain, and all I keep getting is more repeated insistence that following my posts on this particular online forum somehow provides sufficient enough data to make an authoritative read on my real life demeanor, no matter how much evidence I give about myself to the contrary. All of that is easily explained away, you see, by confirmation bias--the universal scapegoat for INFs who don't want to accept their own lack of psychic powers.

Say something else!

 

[yenom]

you know, its far better to treat MBTI as a game and play along.

Zarc, how can you prove you know ENTP better than they know themselves. are you an expert that made you able to type anyone? I fail to see the point fo shoving a type down someone's throat and make them feel pissed about it. Its nice to give alternative suggestions, but if right now I call you an ISFJ and made alot of justificuations saying you have Si traits, how would you think about it.

 

[digesthisickness]

I think I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't, here.

No matter what I say or do, she has some new crazy explanation for it. She's literally telling me that she knows me better than I know myself.

If I'm completely unable to even explain my own thoughts, how can I say anything meaningful? I'm just going to get corrected about what I think, again.

exactly. so, why bother? just let it speak for itself. trust me; it's screaming.

enough rope and...

 

[zarc]

wrong. i care enough to hope he doesn't waste another keystroke on your foolishness. choosing instead to let it speak for itself.

Yea, you hope he won't waste another keystroke. Is it what you would have done? Not bother with me?

Question. Did you read the our first posts on ENTPs? Do you agree with his assessment?

exactly. so, why bother?

I find this funny. Exactly. I said this to him too. Why bother?

If I'm completely unable to even explain my own thoughts, how can I say anything meaningful? I'm just going to get corrected about what I think, again.

I'm not saying I know you better than yourself. I'm saying you don't know type. There's a difference.

But it's k. It ends here.

 

[simulatedworld]

exactly. so, why bother? just let it speak for itself. trust me; it's screaming.

enough rope and...

My favorite parts are where she picks one instance of my behavior, declares unflinchingly that "absolutely zero NTs would behave this way in any situation, ever" and uses that as justification for sticking to her deluded reads, bloated on wild overconfidence.

Zarc, you want some evidence that I'm not ESFP? My Se is certifiably terrible, which you would know if you actually knew me in real life. I have a reputation for being a total space cadet and utterly ignoring my physical environment, always living off in my own head.

But nevermind any of that--just ignore firsthand evidence, because you've got your reads, and as long as you can keep convincing yourself you're right, that's all you need.

Oh wait, here comes another half-baked functional theory to explain why I'm wrong about my own beliefs and emotions. Watch for it...

 

[digesthisickness]

My favorite parts are where she picks one instance of my behavior, declares unflinchingly that "absolutely zero NTs would behave this way in any situation, ever" and uses that as justification for sticking to her deluded reads, bloated on wild overconfidence.

actually, that's what made me post here to begin with. her comment that "an NT wouldn't care enough" to tell you something.

bullshit. if that were true, everyone would love me.

 

[Qre:us]

I'm not saying I know you better than yourself. I'm saying you don't know type. There's a difference.

If he doesn't know type, and, as an example of this, it is by pointing out that he doesn't know his own type. Then, does he know himself better than another?

What's the difference?

 

[simulatedworld]

If he doesn't know type, and, as an example of this, it is by pointing out that he doesn't know his own type. Then, does he know himself better than another?

What's the difference?

Oh Cheshire Cat, you're always good for a laugh.

 

[simulatedworld]

Yea, you hope he won't waste another keystroke. Is it what you would have done? Not bother with me?

Question. Did you read the our first posts on ENTPs? Do you agree with his assessment?



I find this funny. Exactly. I said this to him too. Why bother?



I'm not saying I know you better than yourself. I'm saying you don't know type. There's a difference.

But it's k. It ends here.

"Knowing type" is not some black-and-white binary system. It's not just "know it all" or "know nothing"; there are many varying levels of knowledge, and while I may not understand this particular categorization system on the level that you do, I do understand myself and my own mental processes much better than you do, as well as general descriptions of each type, to know that I identify better with the ENTP mold than with any other. You're still making ridiculous assertions that "he can't possibly be ENTP because I'm positive that all ENTPs would behave exactly this way every time", and I don't know yet if you've picked up on how silly that sounds. I suppose INFJ is the only type that's not constantly predictable for someone of your intellectual stature.

I may sometimes even mistake certain behaviors of my own for common NT behaviors. You probably think the fact that I'm even admitting that I can be wrong about this makes me somehow SP, since SPs are flexible and NTs are totally inflexible and always concerned only with being right, you know, in all cases.

Are you sure you're not the one who's putting a little too much faith in his/her own typology wisdom?

And I'm bothering because you have knowledge that I want--you just keep confusing the useful knowledge (information on functions and typology) with the worthless conjecture (your personal overzealous reads on my inner psyche.)

I'm bothering, for the moment, because I'm hoping you'll share some of your knowledge on the former, and shut up already about the latter because you've failed miserably in that regard.

 

[zarc]

actually, that's what made me post here to begin with. her comment that "an NT wouldn't care enough" to tell you something.

bullshit. if that were true, everyone would love me.

Based off that one small comment as opposted to the rest of what I've written, that's what brought you here? I ask you again, please, to look over (if you can, it is a lot) our initial posts comparing our versions of ENTP. I'm curious to know what you think.

Zarc, you want some evidence that I'm not ESFP? My Se is certifiably terrible, which you would know if you actually knew me in real life. I have a reputation for being a total space cadet and utterly ignoring my physical environment, always living off in my own head.

Yea. My ESTP best friend is the worst sort of space cadet. She constantly forgets her stuff after she's put it down someplace. She's lost more cell phones than I can count...every single one of them on trains too. She might forget she's talking to you and just leave cuz she shut you out so completely. So's my ESFP sister, slightly less spacey, and I used to think she was N due to it (not entirely that but yadda yadda yadda). -- Though I think with my best friend, it's more to do that she often doesn't care about people who are in her path. Or of people in general, eh. Both N and S can be oblivious to their surroundings. It's not precluded from the other. Just depends where, what for or why. An ISFJ might seem oblivious because they're so into their thoughts they don't see the ball coming at them. etc

So b/c one is an Se dom doesn't mean they can't be oblivious to their physical surroundings. There's more to it than that.

can't possibly be ENTP because I'm positive that all ENTPs would behave exactly this way every time"

.........Nope. Haven't said that.

since SPs are flexible and NTs are totally inflexible and always concerned only with being right, you know, in all cases.

Yes, I said SPs are flexible. No, I did not say NTs are inflexible let alone totally. You're putting words in my mouth again.

And I'm bothering because you have knowledge that I want--you just keep confusing the useful knowledge (information on functions and typology) with the worthless conjecture (your personal overzealous reads on my inner psyche.)

You're right. This is where I erred. I see that now. I'll just provide the info. And you can take it or leave it, mold it or beat it around. But at least it won't be based on my subjective opinion of you. You can figure that out for yourself.

But I'm too tired now to go on further. So, I send you to this great thread of Costrin's where myself and others have discussed it all in greater depth. Enjoy.

 

[digesthisickness]

you'll just have to keep being curious, kiddo. i've got bigger fish to fry.

 

[zarc]

k. don't forget the skillet.

 

[yenom]

well, see, there is this girl in another forum (INFP i think) who keeps saying I show strong Fi in my posts. Well then of course everyone has Fi, if people have no fi, wouldn't sex feel like shit? You INFs assume you lknow everything and are making generalizations about things.
Type theory is not absolute, it cannot explain all forms of human behavior. It only gave a vague explaination about things. You can't apply type theory to all aspects of reality.

 

[zarc]

Yup. It is us INFs who assume we know everything!

And we usually do, too! Fancy that.

 

[yenom]

I am not flaming you. I am just saying that sometimes you need to take MBTI as a grain of salt. It doesn't apply to everything. People who claim they are experts at the MBTI have no life in the real world. *cough*Jack Flak*cough*

 

[professor goodstain]

k. don't forget the skillet.

HA HA! YA. Thats great.

 

[zarc]

I am not flaming you. I am just saying that sometimes you need to take MBTI as a grain of salt. It doesn't apply to everything. People who claim they are experts at the MBTI have no life in the real world. *cough*Jack Flak*cough*

I was just playing. I wasn't offended.

Hmm, I never claimed I was an expert. Buuuuut it's true, I have no life in the real world. The only existence I'm aware of is of the mind.

 

[yenom]

There are much more useful ways to invest your intellect than on the MBTI.
You seem quite intelligent so you must understand what i say.
Even neuroscience and economics is more accurate than the MBTI.

 

[Qre:us]

And now you're defering to her because it's more convenient. zz Hate to break it to you (no, not really) ESPs do that too. The oneupmanship. And...no. ENTPs aren't baited into mental oneupmanship or else they'd have already lost. The point is to bait OTHERS into it, not be the bait.

Who is the baited and who does the baiting, imo, becomes subjective after the fact. If/when the entps lose.