User Tag List

First 45678 Last

Results 51 to 60 of 98

  1. #51
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    Sorry for thinking you were a dude, Zarc. :redface:
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  2. #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    Zzzz
    Posts
    2,629

    Default

    No worries. You weren't the only one. And it's been interesting to experience. I actually like it. -.-

    I'm well aware that in RL some people often think me indifferent and commanding (of presence) which is normally attributed to male characteristics. I've had straight girls in the past tell me they wish I was male or if this guy could be like me or that if they were gay...y'know lol

    Maybe in another lifetime.

  3. #53
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ^I officially don't care enough to answer every section of your posts anymore, Zarc.

    I think you're reading exactly what you want to believe about my type into my actions, actions which produce an extremely limited picture of what you can actually know about me and a majority of my personality tendencies. Srsly, since you don't interact with me in real life, you don't know about how I speak or think or act a majority of the time, so stop making huge quantum leaps of assumptions as if you do.

    I may be guilty of this, too--justifying my type reads to myself by twisting them into whatever form makes them seem logically consistent internally (I understand that this is an example of Ti, yes?) The difference is, I'm making no attempt to make such a specific, certain read on someone I only know through a few very brief interactions on an online forum, and you are. I make type guesses for people like everyone else, but I understand that they're guesses, and I think something INFs may have a tendency to miss is that when someone corrects you about their internal motivations, it's time to give up. You guys are generally good at people reading, better than most, but it's seriously just ridiculous when someone responds to you with an explanation to the contrary and you just won't let go of your little conspiracy theories about how no one knows themselves as well as you do. It's all incredibly condescending (not to mention inaccurate) and I'm not sure if you realize this.

    Your function explanations have some merit, but you're conveniently ignoring the ones that don't and the cases where your explanations don't hold up. If you don't think I use Ne or Ti, you quite obviously don't know me, and you're making gigantic assumptions based on very little except your overactive Ni-hunches. Your insistence that you're the authority on everyone's inner emotional workings is reminiscent of INTs' insistence that they're the authorities on logic and all things logical. The same gets old after a while; at least the INTs are working with objective facts and not vague, person-specific profound reads on deep inner psychology. I might put a little more stock in your psychoanalysis if you were, say, my psychiatrist, and if you had months worth of private and personal data provided directly by me.

    But as it is, your posts are mainly full of conjecture. Amusing conjecture that occasionally hits on something that's somewhat accurate, sure, but you must understand that your confidence in this ability of yours is rather excessive. Knowing a lot about MBTI isn't an excuse for this kind of dogmatic insistence upon authority regarding someone else's mental processes.

    It's very clever and entertaining to read, but I'm frankly really tired of hearing INFs psychoanalyze me on no data and then insist beyond all insistence that their reads on me are perfectly insightful and that any insight I may have regarding myself is completely useless. Everyone is in denial to an INFx who thinks he has a read.

    Thanks for the warnings about alienating people; the whole point of calling it a consequence-free environment was that alienating random people on the internet doesn't bother me nearly as much, and so my online behavior differs significantly from my real life behavior.

    Qre was probably right when she said it's just immature ENTPness being baited into mental oneupmanship. I do that shit constantly, but I've mainly restrained it to online fights in recent years because it makes real life a lot smoother.

    And if you're going to put up this front of civility, make an effort to move to PMs and so on, it might show good form to stop going on about it publicly. If your motives are truly benevolent, I don't see why you need to continue convincing whoever shows up on the thread that I don't have Ne or whatever other nonsense.

    You obviously don't have the data to be making such sweeping claims with any credibility, strong though you may be with Ni and Fe.

    And for the record, I'm open to listening to the explanations of people who have more typology experience than I do. I'm sure you guys have read more about the topic than I have and I'm interested in hearing new information on it, just try and divorce it from the condescending and baseless psychobabble, will you? It'll make the learning process much easier on all of us.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #54
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    It was never meant to be conclusive, just to demonstrate he doesn't know function from type or type from profile. Everything I'd been saying to him prior was the proof in the pudding that his understanding of functions and type was being incorrectly misapplied. And that he isn't ENTP due to that.
    Because he is incorrect in his understanding of functions and types, so whatever he has ascribed to himself (an ENTP) is wrong.

    Right? Right.

    I think another dude summed up your point well:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    Boy, you're never going to learn until you wholly abandon profiles and purely embrace functions.

    'Til then it's just pro/injection with you.
    What I'm getting at is probably not at the crux of your issue.

    Your issue: whether simu understands that he misapplies a lot of stuff within typology. I've corrected him before, and he does not think it's that much of an issue, not knowing typology to that depth.

    My issue: how does this 'lack of understanding' prove/disprove (either way) using a cause-effect model whether simu is an ENTP or...whatever?** ** But, you cleared it up in your post with regards to it not meaning to be conclusive.

    We can assume that because he doesn't know typology to that depth, he may have "misapplied" a profile to himself and stuck with it - ENTP. We cannot know whether he truly is ENTP or not, though.
    Question is: is knowledge of functions/typology contingent on being a type? Of course not. So...how about assigning ONESELF a type? Then, imo, it depends....on the mode of knowledge acquired (e.g., validity of certain 'sites' versus others), and to what degree.

    So, taking this context, my initial issue was: him not understanding to depth typology, and, being so fixated on his type; then, to be presented with such a 'ruse'....it was one that was predictably walked into (leaving aside whether a 'true' NT would fall for it or not). Meaning, that whatever initial point of the 'ruse' was, becomes irrelevant in providing any *new* information.

    So much so that it's almost redundant to say, after, "aha, you fell for it, hence it proves _______". I.e., in its presentation, it was SET UP to be a bias (assuming/biasing the conclusion ________ from the start), so we can't go back and say, that it DOES therefore prove ________ - this is why I said it was subjective validity.

    ^ that's my only real point with this tete-a-tete b/w u two. I don't disagree with your evaluation that he doesn't know depths of functions/or typology. (truly, i don't have much of an opinion) My point was with regards to a completely different aspect of the discussion, that of the mode of transmission, I guess. Sorry for the derail.

    And then making fun of other people (I found the post he put you in btw).
    Can you keep a secret? I actually get off on being whined about long after an incidence has passed. Like I'm one of those long-lasting gum. You can't get the taste of me outta your mouth. For a while to come. I done gooood.

    I also think you may be relying TOO much on what functions tell about a person as a whole. 1) Esp. when you can take a thought/idea of theirs, and say, well, they've said it, and this thought/idea can ONLY come from X function, so they MUST then have X. 2) You're not accounting for all that may be inside them as Y, nor whether the response itself necessitated that they respond with an X (regardless of whether the preference would be for X or not). 3) Nor whether what you're ascribing as X may be a mix of other functions working in tandem within that person, or, a really bad handle of another function. 4) Nor whether what you've gleaned from a given information is the same as what the other person is seeing. Or.....

    E.g.,
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Donít tell me I canít do something. Rules and regulations infuriate me. Doing something by the book isnít always logical or reasonable.
    zarc:
    NTs take things seriously, especially rules (Ti = NTP) and regulations (Te = NTJ). Sometimes too seriously. ENTPs are not excluded.
    Actually, I would have agreed with that general description, as well, esp cuz it backs up with 'isn't always logical or reasonable'. I only takes rules as seriously as it needs in order to understand them well enough to break them with efficiency (and flair). [my ex ass-of-a-landlord is testemant to this skill]

    As well, Forer effect happens when there's such general enough profiles, one must also keep in mind.

    Issues with that above exchange b/w u two:
    1) Esp. when you can take a thought/idea of theirs, and say, well, they've said it, and this thought/idea can ONLY come from X function, so they MUST then have X.

    You say, 'especially rules (Ti=NTP)', yes, given. But, how does that translate to mean those with Ti likes rules? Ti likes 'rules' in the sense of logical structures, but, rules in the real world, I don't think only Ti can really be held accountable to this inquiry.


    2) You're not accounting for all that may be inside them as Y, nor whether the response itself necessitated that they respond with an X (regardless of whether the preference would be for X or not).

    zarc: No ETP would care enough to have written such long posts. They just wouldnítóI donít care how evolved as a person. They don't (their Ti doesn't) have the patience for it (EFPs, if they care (Fi) they'll push past their reluctance, putting effort into making themselves understood! Through Pe-Te! /Pe = Se/Ne) . But if they do care, theyíd make it short and sweet because of Ti.
    A long post can be made if there's a long need for justification. I think Ti likes to justify all that Ne can come up with, and can sometimes fall...short. Hence, long. And, sometimes, if the Ne is that convoluted, or that far-reaching, a word count can be a bitch. I know that I always itch that I couldn't put all that I have been thinking into words enough (sufficiently so) to justify exactly the level of 'revelation' going on inside my head. I think a few other ENTPs on this board are quite long-winded (with many [brackets] to indicate another random off-shot thought) (myself included).

    *btw, I think his long-windedness comes from being emotionally baited so he makes his one point puff up to make it look like there's meat.

    3) Nor whether what you're ascribing as X may be a mix of other functions working in tandem within that person, or, a really bad handle of another function.

    As I said earlier, young ENTP, Fe gone a bit beserk to make him post to that length as he does, or miss the detail of certain points, and just find one glaring thing, and hem and haw about it, so that Fe can get calm again, cuz he was able to "attack back" the person who emotionally baited him, maybe?


    For example, look at what you ascribe in terms of functions to a 'long post'.
    zarc:And don't mistaken all my long posts being Te (like yours sw)-- It isn't. It's straight up Fe
    So, if we see a long post, we'll know its either Te or Fe? That's quite the correlation b/w post length and functions.

    4) Nor whether what you've gleaned from a given information is the same as what the other person is seeing.

    Like that example of 'breaking rules'. I think the way you interpreted what rules are are probably quite different than he did.

    Someone please tell me they get this (all the type talk).
    I get type talk, I just don't get how it can be exemplified through a poster's posting style - at the level of being able to dissect certain small statements of theirs and then ascribing a functional cause to where that statement came from. But, that's my overall criticism of Typology in general....so carry on.

    Btw, this doesn't mean I think/don't think Simu is ENTP (no real opinion, nor care). Nor whether I'm siding with him or you..........no sides. Just some thoughts that came with the presentation of this convo between you two.

    I jump whenever there's a mood in me, even if it sometimes may be 'helping' (the case) out the bugger who whines about me all the time. It's not for him or any other person. Even if I hated him (which I obviously don't, he amuses me), I'd still inquire....it's just to inquire about thoughts. Not people.

    And, i see you've said that you've taken it to PM, so sorry if I rehashed this again. Carry on...

  5. #55
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,755

    Default

    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    And if you're going to put up this front of civility, make an effort to move to PMs and so on, it might show good form to stop going on about it publicly. If your motives are truly benevolent, I don't see why you need to continue convincing whoever shows up on the thread that I don't have Ne or whatever other nonsense.
    That may be partly my fault, I started up the convo again, she responded.

  7. #57
    Senior Member htb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    1,506

    Default

    The signal-to-noise ratio was a lot higher when this thread began.

    ENTPs administrate deductively, altering an entire structure in response to a single change in data or circumstance. Potential for breakthrough, low productivity.

    ENTJs administrate inductively, allowing only a brief window of time for reconfiguration before choosing reasonably assured results over theoretical correspondence. Low potential for breakthrough, high productivity.

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    Zzzz
    Posts
    2,629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    ^I officially don't care enough to answer every section of your posts anymore, Zarc.
    Cool. They weren't only for you. I don't care if you don't want to answer every section, so long as you've read them and let your subconscious soak it up up up. If you *officially* don't care, why bother saying that? You could've left that out. Thank you for informing me. F to F.

    Srsly, since you don't interact with me in real life, you don't know about how I speak or think or act a majority of the time, so stop making huge quantum leaps of assumptions as if you do.
    You don't think you project your presence in an online environment? You keep giving yourself away--- REAL LIFE. What's real life? Is this not one perception of reailty? Is there only a concrete, physical one? --- How you SPEAK or ACT has to do with Extraverted Sensing (so does "real life" on your terms). People who are Ns express themselves through their words, through speaking or writing, more easily than they might physically.

    I may be guilty of this, too--justifying my type reads to myself by twisting them into whatever form makes them seem logically consistent internally. The difference is, I'm making no attempt to make such a specific, certain read on someone I only know through a few very brief interactions on an online forum.
    You've made references before to poker or some kind of card game before. You're able to "read" a person in an Se manner-- that's what makes SPs great at it. The difference here is that Ns do read people-- through their words, their writing, the expression it it, the imagery. Again, you only think we've had brief interactions--- taking our interaction at face value. You think I just wrote based on what you've said to me? No-- I hunted through a good portion of your posts (+recalled what I'd read from long ago while I just lurked on the forums, reading all sorts of people's posts and not only yours).

    Your function explanations have some merit, but you're conveniently ignoring the ones that don't and the cases where your explanations don't hold up. If you don't think I use Ne or Ti, you quite obviously don't know me, and you're making gigantic assumptions based on very little except your overactive Ni-hunches.
    OFC you use Ne or Ti. But you haven't shown either in this thread. Take any post you want and point them out to me. Really. Let's see if you won't cop out on this.

    It's very clever and entertaining to read, but I'm frankly really tired of hearing INFs psychoanalyze me on no data and then insist then beyond all insistence that their reads on me are perfectly insightful and that any insight I may have regarding myself is completely useless. Everyone is in denial to an INFx who thinks he has a read.
    No data.... Your posts are the data. With which you are read by. Here's something to ponder. You have a whole bunch of people insisting something against you. You don't think there could be some merit in their collective voice? That your own subjectivity could be clouding your judgment? Oh, right, we're all just wrong and there's no chance of single you being wrong. lol The INFs might not be the only ones who have noticed this but they're likely more the only ones who will CARE to tell you. NTs won't bother. You (+everyone) can take care of yourself.

    Oh, you didn't seem to be tired when you didn't know I was an NF. What changed? I'm betting it's your perception of me. I've lost all creditability b/c I'm a wee little f.

    Thanks for the warnings about alienating people; the whole point of calling it a consequence-free environment was that alienating random people on the internet doesn't bother nearly as much, and so my online behavior differs significantly from my real life behavior.
    How do you think Intuitives orient themselves online and why? Because they often feel it's harder in "real life" and it's easier online. People aren't seen as random or insignificant. They're seen as potentially new experience of connecting with people outside of their local environment-- around the world. And check it. WORDS are POWERFUL. In "real life" or online, because online is another form of real life to us. They are the tools of Ns. They're important from an INFJ to an ENTP. How you use them, the various meanings behind them, the potentional present in conveying a concept that you've yet to materialise in reality.

    Yea, you've said this before. You're online self differs significantly from your "real life" behaviour. I gotcha. Real life = real. Online life = unreal-- sorry, not unreal, just insignificant and without consequence.

    Qre was probably right when she said it's just immature ENTPness being baited into mental oneupmanship. I do that shit constantly.
    And now you're defering to her because it's more convenient. zz Hate to break it to you (no, not really) ESPs do that too. The oneupmanship. And...no. ENTPs aren't baited into mental oneupmanship or else they'd have already lost. The point is to bait OTHERS into it, not be the bait.

    And if you're going to put up this front of civility, make an effort to move to PMs and so on, it might show good form to stop going on about it publicly. If your motives are truly benevolent, I don't see why you need to continue convincing whoever shows up on the thread that I don't have Ne or whatever other nonsense.
    I did move it to PMs. Our discussions there are unrelated here. Can't you see that? And why shouldn't I continue this "publicly"--although this isn't a real public because it's not a real environment, right? So what should it matter then?-- What does my continuing to discuss with others here have anything to do with just putting a front of civility? Should I give you the back door of my civility (more fun for me!) So, it's not okay if other people decide to post and question you? What if others decide to take up the reins, would you think it an insult? Why does it even matter to you? You keep missing that piece the most-- If you were ENTP. None of this would matter to you. But it does. Or you wouldn't have continued this. If you end it now, doesn't change that fact.

    You obviously don't have the data to be making such sweeping claims with any credibility, strong though you may be with Ni and Fe.
    You left dirt all over the house, it's just too much now to sweep under the carpet but into a corner.

  9. #59
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That may be partly my fault, I started up the convo again, she responded.
    It's fine. Like I said, I do want to learn from you guys; I just wish she (not so much you) would stop trying to psychoanalyze me to death with so little to go on. And no matter what I do or say, she finds some way to convince herself that she can twist it into whatever she wants it to mean. Keep hitting that bong there, zarc.

    Feel free to carry on with the in depth explanations of functions and so on. That stuff, on its own, is actually interesting and informative.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #60
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ^Zarc's post:

    Great, more broad generalizations based on nothing. Come on, if you're going to try and help me understand functions or typology better, then do it. "If you were really ENTP none of this would matter to you" blah blah; that's a ridiculous generalization. There is absolutely no way to make any case that ALL people in one of 16 personality stereotypes would respond to this situation or any other in any particular way. That's WAY too much of a generalization to have any validity, much like most of your psycho-meandering.

    Seriously, I know you THINK you know me; you've made that much clear, but at some point you're going to have to accept that you don't.

    Notice the level of effort I'm putting into our exchanges declining! You're repeating yourself because you refuse to accept that brief interaction in an online forum might not be enough data to form such complete motivational explanations for people.

    And if by "a whole bunch of people" insisting something against me, you mean about three, I guess you'd be right. The last time this happened, IIRC, there were more people responding on my side than against it. It was that graveyard thread (I think it's called "Jack who?" now; we had a long talk about internal emotional motivations and Heart was doing something similar to what you're doing now.)

    I don't deny that I could surely learn more about MBTI and functions. That's part of why I'm here. But dear lord, I wonder if you have any idea how absurd you sound trying to build such authoritative psychoanalysis on people of whom you know so little. This goes beyond typology and into your own overconfidence in your ability to do this. If you're so busy explaining to me that treating the forum as a consequence-free environment might come off as annoying or otherwise negative to others, maybe you should take your own advice and stop treating me as if you have anything resembling a complete picture of my psyche.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

Similar Threads

  1. [ENTP] INTJ vs ENTP
    By cj1122 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-11-2016, 02:55 PM
  2. [MBTItm] STEM INTP VS INTJ VS ENTJ VS ENTP
    By Cryonium in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-14-2013, 09:44 AM
  3. [NT] INTP vs ENTP. War of objectivity!
    By Magic Poriferan in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 10-20-2010, 12:18 PM
  4. [ENTP] ENTP Men vs. ENTP Women
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: 07-10-2009, 12:29 AM
  5. enfp vs entp
    By findthejake in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 12-23-2007, 12:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO