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  1. #31
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    How can an INFJ claims to know more about entps than an entp?
    and what does this have to do with entjs.

    what fun is there beating an INFJ in an arguement, it would be more fun watching entp and entj cutting each other's heads off about their understanding of each other.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by untypable View Post
    zarc, are you an ENTJ?
    Do I seem ENTJ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    There's a mannerism to her politeness. F? And, she's a lot more subdued.....and all that talk of Ni & Ti.

    I'd reckon INFJ. (and given her interest in ENTPs as well ) <-- not an accurate indicator, as EVERYONE loves the ENTPs
    I've got an interest in you all. Can't stop with ENTP. The spectrum is so beautiful, I can't settle my eyes. I wonder why that's so hard for people to see. It's like they're happy to spy one and just ghost the rest.

    Quote Originally Posted by untypable
    How can an INFJ claims to know more about entps than an entp?
    You're taking for granted people are the types they list. And why couldn't one person, of one type, know more about the type of another?

    what fun is there beating an INFJ in an arguement, it would be more fun watching entp and entj cutting each other's heads off about their understanding of each other.
    FAIL. I can use you to beat your argument. That's why it's often no fun, for the other person. Unless you like watching people beat their own heads up.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by untypable View Post
    what fun is there beating an INFJ in an arguement, it would be more fun watching entp and entj cutting each other's heads off about their understanding of each other.
    You haven't had the pleasure of meeting the right kinda INFJs then.

    Oh, just my 0.02cents, but, I don't think ENTPs would bother that hard defending that they are the type they are. I might even guess they'd not even bother correcting the person, and play along....

    If you're an entp, it will show, there's no cage sane enough to trap that pack of bullshit. So, it's wastage of effort (which entps hate, when they put in effort in the first place) - to blow and hem and haw to announce their arrival into the realm of ENTP.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    The spectrum is so beautiful, I can't settle my eyes. I wonder why that's so hard for people to see.
    Cuz when you can't settle your eyes, you're too dizzy to see?

    btw, that was quite the infj response rite there.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You haven't had the pleasure of meeting the right kinda INFJs then.
    But we've met. We just haven't been formally introduced.

    Oh, just my 0.02cents, but, I don't think ENTPs would bother that hard defending that they are the type they are. I might even guess they'd not even bother correcting the person, and play along....
    Exactly. Or be upset about it either. What does it matter to them? But if the game's being played, and they're invited or invite themselves, then everything is fair game. The outcome is important but not at the expense of breaking the rules but using the rules to beat the person. Moving the person to break the rules...even better.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Do I seem ENTJ?
    Oh God, not even slightly! You remind me very much of another INFJ poster here in your approach; Fun, logical and just a little bit arrogant. Is fun watching

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Oh, just my 0.02cents, but, I don't think ENTPs would bother that hard defending that they are the type they are. I might even guess they'd not even bother correcting the person, and play along....
    Agree. I always play along when someone tells me I'm not a specific type, more fun that way and why would I care what they think anyway, if someone's serious playing along will prolly irritate them too which is a great bonus

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Cuz when you can't settle your eyes, you're too dizzy to see?

    btw, that was quite the infj response rite there.
    Heh. I've never been good at doing things directly, in such cases, you see, it's easier to keep looking. Even dizzily. Why bother trying to see something which can't be seen directly, anyway? I'm just hoping I get dizzy enough to fall into one of'em. The which isn't important. So long as it's right - of the person. Cause when you think you see everything clearly, it'll clearly not be the case you chanced of but what you thought you'd...seen quite dearly.

    That's why I can't settle, and I refuse to give up my mettles. Too dizzy to see? I'm never too dizzy to perceive... the truth. My eyes are just for looks. My mind kNows better.

    So, I see, you see, and I will say further, all of what I really mean. That to take a chance on a dizzying spell is rather swell rather than to swell yourself into a choice you eventually realise makes you dizzy, so wouldnít you say that it's better than some quick and ease-see, mad catter? Here is my post, for you to scratch. Since I need me a kitty to match my, more than less of your mismatching shade of, purplish coat. Please be my guest! Won't you say... yes. 'Sides, I forgot to mention tension on the eyes is yet ever better, probably the best for the best of the better. Explanation for that...after we dine! And before I forget the custom, the last is often most importantly unimportant without napkins with which to fold our hands on, now that I know you're Qre:us, you should know I used to be Delirious.

    Blah. So yea, the spectrum A to Z, all types of people are beautiful within the chain and within the brain. This - I plainly see.

    btw, tell it to my teacher. he's yet to learn - or what it really means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity
    Oh God, not even slightly! You remind me very much of another INFJ poster here in your approach; Fun, logical and just a little bit arrogant. Is fun watching
    Is his name Morpheus...?

  8. #38
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    You haven't had the pleasure of meeting the right kinda INFJs then.

    Oh, just my 0.02cents, but, I don't think ENTPs would bother that hard defending that they are the type they are. I might even guess they'd not even bother correcting the person, and play along....

    If you're an entp, it will show, there's no cage sane enough to trap that pack of bullshit. So, it's wastage of effort (which entps hate, when they put in effort in the first place) - to blow and hem and haw to announce their arrival into the realm of ENTP.
    Some people are more chauvinistic about their ytype than others though.
    Its like being called gay when you are straight.........

    Is there a difference being tested as an entp and being a entp? Can you get tested as one but not really is one?
    because some people got tested as a certain type qand not sure they are that type.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  9. #39
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I liked your constant edits. It's far more of an attack now. Instead of countering with your invisible Ti (=noticing if there were logical inconsistences), you just run around asserting your understanding of the subject which wasn't even on the table to discuss anymore. Te Te Te lol

    Refute, don't dispute. Learn.
    I thought I didn't have Te? Making edits is like working on any document in progress; you push the save button to avoid losing work.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I am clever, and I revel in it, glad you noticed. I always try to indulge myself in what amuses me. The function names put into my posts was to explain how it works in relation to the info. My apologies, I actually thought you had *at least* cursory understanding of how they work. Now that I know you donít, it makes more sense. I thought you were just misapplying them. We could work from there should you allow progression. Otherwise, after this post, itíll likely just be play time.
    I do have a cursory understanding of functions, but most of the places you used the function puns weren't directly related to the functions they were describing. For instance, if I'm supposed to pick up the message, "You're an SP" from "StoP, you don't know what you're doing" etc., well...I guess that one went right over my head. Seems a little beside the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    You are correct. It was self-masturbatory. And I got off on it. Weren't you watching?
    Yes; I just don't really believe you'd said anything worthy of such wankery.



    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    You donít know my type? Canít figure me out? Not bothering to? When you learn functions, you possibly will. And when you learn ENTP, youíll learn theyíd have already tried and more often be correct for it.--b/c they like cracking systems and that includes systems of people. Til then, I remain more than mist less than fist. I just hope you one day see my hand was always open, regardless of how hard I tried shaking yours. If not, too bad for us both. Iím kind of fond of you. Youíre amusing when youíre not being crass.
    I was guessing ENTP, but I wanted a little more data before making a presumptive guess. Not openly sharing it with you doesn't mean I didn't have an idea. And drop the pretense of benevolent education as a motive, will you?

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    And you missed the point then, as youíre still doing now. You arenít supposed to completely fit but have a Ďbest fití. Go read the ENTP profile on that site. It is not you. Especially read the parts about needing to structure and format and such (Yea, that'd be their Ti at work). Should I paste info for you? Like the important ones where you donít match?
    ....I know. Having a "best fit" instead of a complete one is exactly what I've been preaching this entire conversation. I'm also not exactly sure how you even suspect that you have enough information to declare with any significant certainty that I'm not ENTP. I see you going out on a limb with Ne there and hoping it's right. Please, do post all the important ones that don't match. I'd love to hear your in depth explanation of my character, since you know me so intimately and all. Really, let's hear it.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I already told you lol I suspected it wouldnít resonate with you. So yes, I didnít accomplish what I wanted, however in time as I said, it may prove true. I am ever patient, youíll find. And it doesnít matter to me should I become aware of it either. Iíd just hope you learn for yourself is all.
    I'm fairly certain you won't believe it, but I did read through the relevant type descriptions on that site you linked to and I do identify better with the full ENTP one than ESFP. I think you're right that NTPs have a tendency to insist on being right, but I'd ask you to remember that you're only getting a small portrait of one aspect of my personality from this forum, and that this aspect is exaggerated because I use the forum largely for the purpose of practicing argumentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    lol Two letters in common mean nothing, especially those particular ones. Saying E and T would have made more sense, not be right, but make more sense. So no, it doesn't explain how it fits but just how it fits to you. Otherwise all EPs would be similar by what you say and they're not. Next you'll think ENFP is similar to ENTP because you're ENTP. They aren't. If you do think they're similar it's b/c you're ESFP.


    ENTP is closer to ESTP and INTP Ė b/c they have similar functions. Not ENTJ. Learn functions, learn how they relate. And you were able to guess some of it was ESFP because some things youíve already learned from your precious typelogic profile and recognized Ė I almost left those parts out but decided against it. What then, if I'd taken those three little lines, you'd have agreed to it all (don't bother disagreeing now b/c you already agreed that the rest fit you--) Still ENTP, hmm? And it wasnít ďsomeĒ you recognized. It was T H R E E little lines. You agreed to everything else. Thatís why I had you clarify. I wanted to make sure before going on with it because you couldíve been ENTP (though I doubted).
    All EPs are similar in some ways, like say, the ways I mentioned in my first response to the quotes. There do exist generalized statements which apply well to any ExxP type; some of the pieces of the descriptions that you chose to quote are good examples. Statements such as "I don't like having to do a lot of planning" are true of Ps in general; there's no reason that identifying with some of these should place me in ESFP over ENTP.

    Also, I didn't say I identified directly with it; I said most of it seemed reasonably applicable to ENTP, not a complete description of the type mold. That's an important distinction. The type descriptions on this site, since they seem to come directly from people of each type themselves, contain a variety of statements of varying degrees of specificity.

    Those "three little lines" are more important than you've given them credit for, because many of the lines you quoted were generalized enough as to apply to lots of different types; I only took issue with the ones that seemed distinctly not-ENTP. Identifying with a large portion of such a description doesn't seem to put into that type if I still don't identify with several key ESFP characteristics.

    If you want, we can go through each piece of each description and discuss which ones fit me best. If you're truly interested in helping me out, I imagine I would learn from this, so let's do it.






    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    I find it strange you could say they're a bit too generalized yet you keep on harping how that's what type is about --generalizations and stereotypes. You don't get to indiscriminately choose when it fits. -- that being, when it fits to your understanding.
    I said that they're highly generalized in order to illustrate the fact that many of the statements in each type description are applicable to numerous other types, not to complain that they were bad explanations of type. There are aspects of the ESFP description that apply to me--certainly there are much worse type matches for me, but I do find the ENTP one more applicable to me (though I'm sure you'll attribute that 100% to confirmation bias.) How can you declare with such certainty that this type is "not me"?

    I can go through the ESFP description and point out other things that aren't really exactly right for me if you want; I was kind of summarizing in the first place...and I did not agree that the rest fit me. I said it could be reasonably applied to ENTPs--which is true of any statement that applies to most Es, or most EPs, or most ENs, or most ETPs, and so on and so forth. (And the ESFP description on that site contained a lot of these.) The statements don't have to apply strictly to one complete type and have no other meaning or value.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Did you notice the parts where--- ah, never mind (re:read above at least). There were too many, I keep and kept pointing them out, and now Iíd just be regurgitating it all over again. Itís like merry-go-rounding after eating an ice-cream jalapeŮo peppered sandwich. Iím both dizzy and sick. >_>
    I kinda feel the same way, buddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Yup, I am fascinated by myself, not SO but juuuust right. I make no bones about. Iíd throw some at you but I doubt youíd play catch. It wasnít some kind of attempted deception. It was full on throttle take it to the max manipulation. Wouldn't ENTPs be clever enough to notice?
    Sometimes. We do miss things and make mistakes on occasion, too, especially in a limited communication medium like pure text.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Yup, that I did. Did you think I wasnít aware? Your point?

    And y'know, I notice how often you deflect and ignore what's actually written. I did point out to you in the differences in my first post about what was wrong with your ENTP version. Point by point I dissected how it was wrong. Throwing "functions" in there didn't matter because there was information backing it up. You couldn't counter me on functions because you didn't understand. There's an excuse if you didn't know about functions or how they work but there's no excuse that you didn't try to refute anything. Just kept disputing your case. Next!
    There wasn't a lot of information besides repeatedly asserting that I was wrong. I suppose you think every ENTP I know in real life is also completely wrong about his own type and personal tendencies for identifying with the initial descriptions I gave.

    Are the things I wrote in my ENTP description actually much more applicable to ESFPs? If they're not ENTP, then what are they?

    And speaking of deflection, I'm still waiting on an explanation for why ENTPs have no Te.



    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    George Carlin is ENTJ. Louis CK is ENTP. And heís freakiní hilarious too.

    Why bring Nocap into this? What do I care what heís said to you? It's none of my business nor pertinent to the discussion. And why did you bring Qre:us into it before as well(though you took her out. Yea I noticed in edition 1.)? You canít even objectively argue without bringing people you are bothered by into the discussion to make your case? Ö. What do THEY have to do with what WE are discussing? Nothing. So keep them out of it.
    I'm not going to argue the comedians' types anymore; it's obvious we disagree. I actually meant to leave the thing about Qre in there; if it's not there I must have deleted it mistakenly. I brought up the others because they seemed to be using similar tactics. I'll leave them out if you'd prefer.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    It isnít your problem if you donít care in being correct. Itís everyone elseís problem because you spread that incorrectness around. You arenít the only one, no, but most people here have basic understanding of the functions and know a bit about how they work together.

    I never said it was useless. Don't put words into my mouth, please. You seem to do that often. Really, find me where I explicitly say that typing or that the MBTI system is useless. -- I wouldn't have learned the whole thing if I thought so. And don't just find me just one thing but find me the whole 'rambling paragraphs about it's uselessness'. Did you even read the post...? Or were you too heated to grasp much of anything? Anyway, you wonít find any. Not one in that last post, or any, did I even so much as say that. Youíre making it up. Inferior Ni. But I bet that if you did, you wouldn't bother countering anything and just point that out as if to say "I've made my case!" lol
    I've based my conception of ENTP on reading a variety of different explanations for what that type is, and my own experiences with people that seem to test that way. I don't use "I do it" as a blanket assumption that all ENTPs do it. I do have a reasonable understanding of functions, and my statement that you were implying a lack of worth in MBTI was based on your repeated assertions that functions are the only thing that matters in assessing personality type and tendecy. I'm sorry, you didn't actually say that it was worthless, but you seemed to be implying it by telling me that all of my experience with MBTI-based typology is rendered irrelevant when one understands functions, and I don't think that's true.

    You made a point of condescendingly repeating your mistaken idea that I know nothing about functions several times, and yet you show up implying that functions not expressed in the four-function MBTI system aren't even exercised at all. You justified your assertions that my ENTP description was incorrect primarily through simple contradiction and declaring that the functions responsible for the behavior I described are not even present in ENTPs, which is not true. What "information" backing this up did you provide?

    Frankly, it seems to me that we both just contradicted each other and repeated "no, you're wrong" a lot. I am interested in hearing about why you find the type descriptions on bestfittype.com to be so much more compelling/correct than others.




    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    What Iím more disappointed in was that you say you love games yet you couldnít handle mine enough to play along. Maybe you arenít ESFP either. Oh wait, I almost forgot!, you didnít want to play along because it didnít feel good to your Fi (Fi = one's personal feelings). Makes sense. You shouldnít play. So, if I have upset you and youíre just not saying it. Stop this game.
    If I didn't like the game I wouldn't keep coming back.

    Quote Originally Posted by zarc View Post
    Or stop viewing it as an argument when it's a discussion. Not once did I insult you in any which way ever prior. The only thing I did was insult your sense of identity. I'm sorry if it's upsetting but I don't apologise for being right.

    And it ends when you want it to, otherwise youíll just end up feeling worse for it. Cuz I could care less, Iím just having fun knowing I'm right. I did say that from the very beginning.

    And while you may think me an asshole, and sometimes I am, Iím not the kind that shits all over people. I let people do that to themselves.

    P.S. Boyo wasn't meant to be condescending. I only use boyo for males I'm fond of. And, yes, it includes calling ones that I don't necessarily like either. I'm queer like that.
    I think it was an argument when we started arguing about the definition of ENTP.

    But honestly, look, this last post is the first one that you seem to have really put much effort into. It's become evident that you do have an idea of what you're talking about, and so I'm dropping the condescending showmanship at this point. Mostly it's just to stir people up in trying to probe for more honest responses; I'm sure you're familiar with the same tactic.

    I'm genuinely curious to further explore my type, though, and find out if I've truly been mistaken. I'm listening!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #40
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I thought I didn't have Te? Making edits is like working on any document in progress; you push the save button to avoid losing work.



    I do have a cursory understanding of functions, but most of the places you used the function puns weren't directly related to the functions they were describing. For instance, if I'm supposed to pick up the message, "You're an SP" from "StoP, you don't know what you're doing" etc., well...I guess that one went right over my head. Seems a little beside the point.



    Yes; I just don't really believe you'd said anything worthy of such wankery.





    I was guessing ENTP, but I wanted a little more data before making a presumptive guess. Not openly sharing it with you doesn't mean I didn't have an idea. And drop the pretense of benevolent education as a motive, will you?



    ....I know. Having a "best fit" instead of a complete one is exactly what I've been preaching this entire conversation. I'm also not exactly sure how you even suspect that you have enough information to declare with any significant certainty that I'm not ENTP. I see you going out on a limb with Ne there and hoping it's right. Please, do post all the important ones that don't match. I'd love to hear your in depth explanation of my character, since you know me so intimately and all. Really, let's hear it.



    I'm fairly certain you won't believe it, but I did read through the relevant type descriptions on that site you linked to and I do identify better with the full ENTP one than ESFP. I think you're right that NTPs have a tendency to insist on being right, but I'd ask you to remember that you're only getting a small portrait of one aspect of my personality from this forum, and that this aspect is exaggerated because I use the forum largely for the purpose of practicing argumentation.



    All EPs are similar in some ways, like say, the ways I mentioned in my first response to the quotes. There do exist generalized statements which apply well to any ExxP type; some of the pieces of the descriptions that you chose to quote are good examples. Statements such as "I don't like having to do a lot of planning" are true of Ps in general; there's no reason that identifying with some of these should place me in ESFP over ENTP.

    Also, I didn't say I identified directly with it; I said most of it seemed reasonably applicable to ENTP, not a complete description of the type mold. That's an important distinction. The type descriptions on this site, since they seem to come directly from people of each type themselves, contain a variety of statements of varying degrees of specificity.

    Those "three little lines" are more important than you've given them credit for, because many of the lines you quoted were generalized enough as to apply to lots of different types; I only took issue with the ones that seemed distinctly not-ENTP. Identifying with a large portion of such a description doesn't seem to put into that type if I still don't identify with several key ESFP characteristics.

    If you want, we can go through each piece of each description and discuss which ones fit me best. If you're truly interested in helping me out, I imagine I would learn from this, so let's do it.








    I said that they're highly generalized in order to illustrate the fact that many of the statements in each type description are applicable to numerous other types, not to complain that they were bad explanations of type. There are aspects of the ESFP description that apply to me--certainly there are much worse type matches for me, but I do find the ENTP one more applicable to me (though I'm sure you'll attribute that 100% to confirmation bias.) How can you declare with such certainty that this type is "not me"?

    I can go through the ESFP description and point out other things that aren't really exactly right for me if you want; I was kind of summarizing in the first place...and I did not agree that the rest fit me. I said it could be reasonably applied to ENTPs--which is true of any statement that applies to most Es, or most EPs, or most ENs, or most ETPs, and so on and so forth. (And the ESFP description on that site contained a lot of these.) The statements don't have to apply strictly to one complete type and have no other meaning or value.



    I kinda feel the same way, buddy.



    Sometimes. We do miss things and make mistakes on occasion, too, especially in a limited communication medium like pure text.



    There wasn't a lot of information besides repeatedly asserting that I was wrong. I suppose you think every ENTP I know in real life is also completely wrong about his own type and personal tendencies for identifying with the initial descriptions I gave.

    Are the things I wrote in my ENTP description actually much more applicable to ESFPs? If they're not ENTP, then what are they?

    And speaking of deflection, I'm still waiting on an explanation for why ENTPs have no Te.





    I'm not going to argue the comedians' types anymore; it's obvious we disagree. I actually meant to leave the thing about Qre in there; if it's not there I must have deleted it mistakenly. I brought up the others because they seemed to be using similar tactics. I'll leave them out if you'd prefer.



    I've based my conception of ENTP on reading a variety of different explanations for what that type is, and my own experiences with people that seem to test that way. I don't use "I do it" as a blanket assumption that all ENTPs do it. I do have a reasonable understanding of functions, and my statement that you were implying a lack of worth in MBTI was based on your repeated assertions that functions are the only thing that matters in assessing personality type and tendecy. I'm sorry, you didn't actually say that it was worthless, but you seemed to be implying it by telling me that all of my experience with MBTI-based typology is rendered irrelevant when one understands functions, and I don't think that's true.

    You made a point of condescendingly repeating your mistaken idea that I know nothing about functions several times, and yet you show up implying that functions not expressed in the four-function MBTI system aren't even exercised at all. You justified your assertions that my ENTP description was incorrect primarily through simple contradiction and declaring that the functions responsible for the behavior I described are not even present in ENTPs, which is not true. What "information" backing this up did you provide?

    Frankly, it seems to me that we both just contradicted each other and repeated "no, you're wrong" a lot. I am interested in hearing about why you find the type descriptions on bestfittype.com to be so much more compelling/correct than others.






    If I didn't like the game I wouldn't keep coming back.



    I think it was an argument when we started arguing about the definition of ENTP.

    But honestly, look, this last post is the first one that you seem to have really put much effort into. It's become evident that you do have an idea of what you're talking about, and so I'm dropping the condescending showmanship at this point. Mostly it's just to stir people up in trying to probe for more honest responses; I'm sure you're familiar with the same tactic.

    I'm genuinely curious to further explore my type, though, and find out if I've truly been mistaken. I'm listening!

    Man, you don't have to write an essay to prove to everyone you are an entp.
    if people mistyped you, let them believe it. And if it really comes to that, I would rather be typeless thatn justifyinhg myself.

    I once got typed as an INFP by an someone who thinks they know better than me about the MBTI I was pissed, but so what. These things happen, some people like to shove BS into other people;s throats. Just let them believe what they say. and give a HO HO LOL.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

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