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  1. #91
    Riva
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    sorry, but i have to jump in the middle and say something totally irrelevant -
    never argue with anyone who can write lengthy posts like you two.
    that's the special note i made to myself today.

    ps: this is the lengthiest post i have typed in ages. don't tell the moderators(they hate people like me)

  2. #92
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ Oh come on, you haven't stopped psychoscrabbling or babbling at all yet. Every one of your posts still contains a healthy dose of "WATCH ME EXPLAIN EVERYTHING YOU DO WITH FUNCTIONS"

    I did answer your question about Victor. The fact that I didn't respond to it immediately in the first post after you asked seems to have led you to assume that I wasn't planning to or was unable to. OMG MUST BE Se YOU'RE TAKING THINGS AT FACE VALUE!!!!11

    In fact, several times you've taken my summaries or other general-idea concepts and declared that I don't understand them, simply because I haven't explained every detail. WOW YOU REALLY WANT DETAILS I GUESS YOU ARE AN S

    Also, Qre would apparently have agreed with the general ESFP description you gave. I guess she's ESFP also?

    Point being, this is just another example of you explaining my behavior according to whatever functions you feel like, because without really knowing me you can't really be sure which functions or combinations of functions are responsible for anything I'm saying or doing.

    Your comment about Ne+Ti up there has been the first accurate one in regards to me. Let a monkey bang on a typewriter long enough and she'll eventually come up with something meaningful.

    I rely on the four letters more than the eight functions precisely because they're more generalized and therefore easier to use as vague stereotypes. I don't think MBTI types or function explanations alone are all that useful for predicting the behaviors of others; they're just starting points, like choosing what color of paper on which to paint that person's personality portrait. I'm working on learning about the functions more because it's interesting to try and guess at the underlying root causes for behavior, but there's a difference between simply categorizing behaviors, as the four-letter system does, and going way out on a limb to try and explain the subconscious psychological explanations for them.

    Although, I have just realized something, here. I think you put way too much stock in the functions themselves and their ability to accurately explain inner mental/emotional processes. I think you really like the explanations they give and that it feels internally consistent to you, but I don't rely on MBTI's accuracy nearly as much as you do. As I said it's just a behavioral categorization system for me, not an attempt at psychoanalysis that I have neither the time nor the background to use accurately.

    We could name each type XFEI or 6297 for all I care; it's only the ability to relate behavioral patterns between different people in the same categories that matters to me. As I understand it, this conceptual external pattern-finding filtered through internal logical correctness is described as Ne+Ti, but those are still only hypothetical constructs that serve as guesses by Jung for how and why the brain operates the way it does.

    I didn't bother writing out MBTI functions in my own terms because it was a waste of time, and I don't need to prove to you my understanding of such a basic system. I'm lazy, in other words, and I didn't think you'd go so far as to imply that I don't even understand the basic MBTI letters.

    I don't actually think it's all that scientific; I put the word science in quotes because its use was kind of sarcastic. WAY TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES YOU BIG SENSOR THAT WAS TOTALLY Se LOL

    If you don't cling to precise functional orders, perhaps you should stop giving arguments consisting largely of, "He can't be xxxx type because I think he's exercising some other functions that aren't typical for that type."

    I think we need to divorce MBTI type from functional analysis and make the systems separately useful, but not codependent. The latter system seems written too specifically to be of any particular use beyond personal amusement at making guesses. The former is more effective and reliable to me because it doesn't try to breach the unavoidable barrier between internal motivation and external action.

    You can continue making fun of me all you want for not knowing the functions as well as you do. I guess you really think that inhibits my ability to use typology in a worthwhile manner, apparently. Problem is, I'm not really trying to use them in the same way you are, and my approach (considering types as arbitrary categorization systems of externalized behavior) puts far less stock in a bunch of unproven conjecture that the scientific community in general doesn't really take all that seriously (trying to go further and use types/functions/both as a method of fully explaining the inner mental processes that result in those externalized behaviors.)

    I do thank you for leading me, if indirectly, to this conclusion, and I do respect your knowledge of the function system. I just think you put a little too much faith in its ability to explain the inner personality without really having any good reason to. Unfortunately your M.O. throughout this whole exchange has consisted mostly of:

    1) Ask me to describe or respond to something,
    2) Make up an explanation for it using functions, and
    3) Insist that this explanation must be correct and repeatedly mock me for not knowing the functional definitions as well as you do.

    I don't find this very compelling--functions are interesting guesses at why the mind works the way it does, but they're still simply too unsubstantiated to put such confidence in their ability to perfectly explain a process that the human race still really doesn't understand with anything approaching full closure.


    So, look at the link I gave you before if you seriously want to learn more from people who are right or learn on your own with your own sources.


    Tee-hee. Speaking of putting a little too much faith in it..."people who are right", huh? I don't suppose you'd care to explain how you know that?

    Come back when you've been to med school and become Zarc, M.D. Maybe when you're an actual psychiatrist, and we've had some real psychotherapy sessions from which to draw conclusions about my inner workings, I'll take your cursory explanations of in-depth mental processes a little more seriously.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #93
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post

    Also, Qre would apparently have agreed with the general ESFP description you gave. I guess she's ESFP also?
    I could very well be....


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Qre, if you're still hanging out:

    Doesn't zarc's insistence upon attributing every minor thought and action to particular functions kind of fly in the face of what you were saying last week on the prejudice against sensors thread? After considering it for a while, I think you had a good point on that--any given thought or action or opinion could be a result of many different functions, and is probably the result of several working in concert, in most cases.


    I was actually gonna point that out yesterday, but, felt that there was enough fire in this shitstorm.

    Although, I think that what zarc pointed out about you not knowing enough about functions is legit (which I think you agreed to). The issue was with her ascribing certain of your 'online actions' to certain presumed functions that I warned her may be too much extrapolation. She even later clarified that she had erred in that way.

    But, I don't think she's alone in this kind of assumptions. (she may have taken it to the level of nitti-grittiness, outlining very pointed examples, but, this may have also been an effect of both of your long dialogue/counters to each other).

    Plenty of people on this forum question other posters' type (whether directly soliticited for that knowledge, e.g., 'help me find out my type', or in sarcarsm [which others take seriously and respond], or unsoliticited, which usually ends in an felt offence by the recipient). The last one: Like yourself and zarc.

    However, you've done it too:

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    ENFP has a similar energy, even though INTP has a similar need to define and categorize. I'm going with ENFP. This is, of course, predicated on the assumption that I'm ENTP and not INTP.
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    From my observations of your writing and thinking style I would place you as ENFP, honestly, and that's probably why you identify well with ENFPs. I don't get much of an NT vibe from you, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Interesting. I would say the same thing about you.
    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Wow. You don't read a lot of my posts, do you?

    You would definitely be the first person I've ever encountered who's suggested that I might be driven more by empathy than by rationality. In fact, I constantly get lots of the exact opposite criticism from almost everyone I know.

    What on earth strikes you as ENFP about me?

    P.S.,

    I am, admittedly, glad to hear that someone thinks I show some kind of F sometimes. It really doesn't come naturally to me; working on that tertiary Fe is something I've had to put a great deal of effort into, and it's still so weak that most people don't even notice.

    Two options: (1) dish it, take it. (2) learn it, leave it

  4. #94
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I could very well be....






    I was actually gonna point that out yesterday, but, felt that there was enough fire in this shitstorm.

    Although, I think that what zarc pointed out about you not knowing enough about functions is legit (which I think you agreed to). The issue was with her ascribing certain of your 'online actions' to certain presumed functions that I warned her may be too much extrapolation. She even later clarified that she had erred in that way.

    But, I don't think she's alone in this kind of assumptions. (she may have taken it to the level of nitti-grittiness, outlining very pointed examples, but, this may have also been an effect of both of your long dialogue/counters to each other).

    Plenty of people on this forum question other posters' type (whether directly soliticited for that knowledge, e.g., 'help me find out my type', or in sarcarsm [which others take seriously and respond], or unsoliticited, which usually ends in an felt offence by the recipient). The last one: Like yourself and zarc.

    However, you've done it too:










    Two options: (1) dish it, take it. (2) learn it, leave it
    I think I'm going for option 1, mostly. But I'm also trying to improve my understanding of functions on the way, and if that requires listening to a bunch of amateur psychoanalysis to learn, then whatever, bring it on.

    And no, zarc did NOT agree to having made any sort of error in her functional analysis about me. When she said "this is where I erred", she was agreeing that her psychoanalysis was not conducive to her stated goal of educating me about functions--she never actually admitted any fallibility in her own type read; she just kept yammering on with her crazy conjectural guesses about my mental processes long after I'd corrected her on them.

    I've made guesses at people's types, sure. Everybody does that. The difference is that if I've made a guess about someone and that person informs me that this guess was erroneous by explaining more about him/herself, I back off. Zarc still hasn't.

    I talked to Edahn for a little bit, listened to him describe himself and then gave him a wall post saying I'd mistyped him as ENFP and that I understood him to be a probable ENTP. See, this is the main problem--I'm all for guessing at types and behavioral patterns, but it's silly to continually insist that you know someone better than he knows himself after he's corrected you otherwise.

    I've made plenty of guesses that turned out to be wrong upon further investigation. The key is acknowledging that your guesses are guesses, and being able to change them as more specific information becomes available.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  5. #95
    Senior Member velocity's Avatar
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    this thread is really about zarc trying to set sim up with her esfp sister who is secretly pulling all the strings in the background. the conflation of function definitions is the farcical red herring here, a clever ruse intended to distract the audience from its true nature!

    look at my ni go! vrom vrom did i win?

  6. #96
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    ^ No clever ruse was necessary for that. If her sister's ESFP and not totally ugly, chances are I'd do her.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #97
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    ENTJ:

    not afraid of doing the wrong thing, speaks up regardless of consequences, not filled with doubt, more dominant than submissive, not afraid to draw attention to self, self confident, does not back down when threatened, decisive, feels you have to be tough on people to get things done, not easily hurt, worry free, not easily intimidated, not concerned with failure when trying something new, aggressive, fearless, controlling, domineering, ambivalent about the suffering of strangers, not easily discouraged, out for own personal gain, comfortable in unfamiliar situations, unconcerned with the misfortunes of strangers, likes giving speeches, not easily moved to tears, manipulative, unapologetic, knows where life is going, narcissistic, exacting in their work, does not second guess self, untouched by other people's feelings, the first to act, level emotions, never at a loss for words, opinionated, demanding, goes after what they want, believes in a logical answer for everything, not very religious, show off, calm in crisis
    ENTP

    not afraid of doing the wrong things, does not value rules and regulations, prefers unpredictable to organized, does not accomplish work on time, needs to maintain high levels of excitement, out for own personal gain, not afraid to draw attention to self, more pleasure seeking than responsible, not bothered by disorder, retaliatory, thrives on the rush of risk taking, unpredictable, asks questions that nobody else does, often does not know what they are doing, spontaneous, first to act, not easily hurt, not apprehensive about new encounters, does not readily admit mistakes, not a perfectionist, not apologetic, disorganized, socially comfortable, outgoing, calm in crisis, fearless, atheist/agnostic tendencies, good at getting people to have fun, opinionated, not easily moved to tears, sexually immodest, adventurous, unconventional, aggressive, often late, high energy level, likes the spotlight, ambivalent about the needs of others, worry free, acts without thinking or planning, bad at saving money, selfish
    ENTJ: TJ dominant (strongest letter T and J, or N and T)

    ENTP: EP dominant (strongest letter P and N, or E and P)
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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  8. #98
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    kids, get a room.
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

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    ... In theory.

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