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  1. #11
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    All conscious functions are linked to the Ego (the technical term is "ego-systonic"). For many people, only the dominant and auxiliary functions have become conscious, but it is possible for a well-developed type to raise functions 3 and 4 to consciousness as well.

    The danger arises when the Ego becomes too invested in a function (usually the dominant). I've been guilty of this myself in the past, insisting that other people's understanding of a situation falls far short of my own Ni clarity of vision. I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas").

    Although this can lead to conflict between dom-Ti types, it gets much nastier when egotistical Ti meets egotistical Ni. Ti keeps insisting on the "One And Only True Definition" while Ni counters with "All Definitions Are Completely Arbitrary" until it gets out of control and becomes personal. Then they start name-calling and abusing each other.

    I'm not joking here, I've seen it happen both in real-life and on this (and other) forums.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  2. #12
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    Ti cannot be "egocentric" because Ti has no Ego, lameass! Ego is a COMPOSITION of inputs (IE all functions) that yields your concious mind.

    HOWEVER, I think I intuit what you meant to ask here and I reply as such: No, Ti is not selfish or single-minded.... Ti "just doesn't care" about self-sustainment or others, period. Ti is a "crosscheck" mechanism that yields either a "pass" or "fail" result in varying degrees, no special passes warranted.

    What you describe isn't a Ti vs. Ti conflict, but a classic communication failure


    This whole thread and others like it make me want to start my official "why I hate the cognitive functions" thread..... ppl just start attributing ANY FUCKING THING to some arbitrary I/E function.... it's bullshit

    sorry I did not mean to offend. I like Ti myself. (Can I be any more illogical? hehehe...)

    I work with INTPs and ENTPs most of the time. Most are very functional and very awesome but some of them can appear very disjointed and ackward-like they can't quite coordinate thier NE-TI or TI-Ne abilities together very well.

    Since I have been thinking a lot on Fi and how I interact with other Fis it seemed like an obvious question.

    As for "egocentricity" that was a direct quote from an INTP on a thread somewhere, so I just used the same language.

    I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.

    I again saw this recently with an ENTP, and promptly slapped his ass down by telling him the above story.


    Again my apologies as I am still new to "function" land and sometimes just probing seems the best way to learn. Want me to sing you "The Happy Function Song?"

  3. #13
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I'm with nozflubber. "Ti" refers to a process of sorting information. That's it. There's 1) no ego involved and 2) there's nothing that WANTS anything, since it's just a process. It can't be egocentric because it can't WANT, by definition.

  4. #14
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I'm with nozflubber. "Ti" refers to a process of sorting information. That's it. There's 1) no ego involved and 2) there's nothing that WANTS anything, since it's just a process. It can't be egocentric because it can't WANT, by definition.
    You're right, Ti by itself is just a process. It's the Ego itself that can become over-inflated. The Ego is separate from the type functions, however it can become over-identified with them to the point where they become contaminated and distorted. Think of the sheer incongruity of people who become emotionally aroused when defending a supposedly non-emotional function like Ti.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  5. #15
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocap View Post
    Please don't make absurd metaphors.

    Thanks in advance for your unconditional cooperation.
    Nananana you can't make me!

    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I work with INTPs and ENTPs most of the time. Most are very functional and very awesome but some of them can appear very disjointed and ackward-like they can't quite coordinate thier NE-TI or TI-Ne abilities together very well.

    [...]

    I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.
    Yeah. INTPs can get pretty stubborn sometimes. We can get attached to our models, and breaking them down and starting anew can be a difficult and time-consuming process.

    Again my apologies as I am still new to "function" land and sometimes just probing seems the best way to learn. Want me to sing you "The Happy Function Song?"
    Sure.
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
    - Costrin

  6. #16
    Senior Mugwump Apollanaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy puppy View Post
    I have seen both INTPs and ENTPs realltyfuck stuff up though when they get stuck on thier solution. In one situation an INTP cost millions-no exaggeration-by sticking with a cool, patent generating, approach to a problem that he thought off. After two years we fixed it to a tried and true design but he can't let the "idea" go in spite of mountains of flawed data.
    This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said:

    "I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas")."

    I've always worked in scientific laboratories, where I have had plenty of encounters with INTPs, both healthy and unhealthy. It's the unhealthy ones who can get so fixated on an idea that they pursue it beyond all reason, even when all the data and everyone else points out that they should give up and let go.
    INFJ 9w1 sx/sp/so

    "A wizard is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." - Gandalf The Grey

    And if I only could,
    I'd make a deal with God,
    And I'd get him to swap our places,
    Be running up that road,
    Be running up that hill,
    With no problems.

    - Kate Bush

  7. #17
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    You're right, Ti by itself is just a process. It's the Ego itself that can become over-inflated. The Ego is separate from the type functions, however it can become over-identified with them to the point where they become contaminated and distorted. Think of the sheer incongruity of people who become emotionally aroused when defending a supposedly non-emotional function like Ti.
    Yeah, but that's a very different question, isn't it? That's asking whether people identify or are aroused when performing certain mental tasks.

  8. #18
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Yeah, but that's a very different question, isn't it? That's asking whether people identify or are aroused when performing certain mental tasks.
    I KNOW I DO.
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  9. #19
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Is Ti egocentric?

    Um...

    Lol, and to think, I actually *used* to firmly believe that there was no such thing as a stupid question, guess I was wrong.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

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  10. #20
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollanaut View Post
    This is exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of when I said:

    "I've noticed it in Ti-users as well: they tend to become very dogmatic, nit-picking and extremely sensitive to any criticism (intended or otherwise) of their knowledge and pet theories (I call them "Technical Prima Donnas")."

    I've always worked in scientific laboratories, where I have had plenty of encounters with INTPs, both healthy and unhealthy. It's the unhealthy ones who can get so fixated on an idea that they pursue it beyond all reason, even when all the data and everyone else points out that they should give up and let go.
    Aren't healthy INTPs supposed to be really open minded though?
    And how about ENTPs do they suffer from the same problem?
    "I'd never die for my beliefs, I might be wrong"

    "Is it not enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe there are fairys at the bottom of it too"

    "Intelligence is being able to hold too opposing views in the mind at the one time without going crazy" - Now all I need to figure out is if I'm intelligent or crazy!

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