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  1. #11
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    Question Perhaps you could help a lot

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Do you do this too, sometimes feel compelled to put yourself in a public place and... look at stuff?
    Sure does seem to sound like Se...interesting


    I'm aware of a sort of meter, too. If I don't sometimes do this stop-and-stare thing, it feels like something is lacking. And when I do do the stop-and-stare, then after a while the meter is on full and I can go home satisfied.
    When you say lacking...can you tell me if there is a feeling assoc. with this? This helps me to understand what may be happening with ISFP's and their need to experience...that is, if indeed it is Se. I just don't do well with this type and your words are very interesting to me...

    Also, since your tertiary function would be Fi, have you experienced what you feel this is? If so, can you explain anything from your vantage point. Your ability to put into words what an Fi dom has trouble with, could go a long way to helping..

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  2. #12
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    It seems like Se is the INTJ's unexpected secret. I think we use it more than we acknowledge. I think also it is fairly distant from our conscious main priorities. But I think it's there every day.

    I find for myself that there are times when it feels literally like a switch is thrown and suddenly I'm in the Se-zone. It particularly happens after other events. Like for me, I'll finish teaching classes for the day and I'll be packing up the books and whatnot, and as is usual, for reasons I don't understand, I'll hear, and sometimes start to sing, a snippet from Radiohead's Exit Music, "Wake, from your sleep, the drying of your tears....". Like that song. ("Breathe, keep breathing, I can't do this alone.") And it really does feel like waking up. And then it's time to walk home, and the walk home will be a sensory ride.

    It's not psychedelic or nuthin.

    And sometimes I'll be aware of being unable to attend to my senses. Like for example if I'm on a stretch of road that usually includes looking at stuff but there's some serious, uncomfortable issue occupying my thinking. I'll be aware of being unable to escape out into the world.

    So what's the feeling? Dunno. It's a little like everything else is done with and there isn't a particular feeling, it's just a sense explosion. And for me, it's always the world through the eyes. I'm aware of seeing and actively looking. There's a physical feeling component--I'll like it if there's a chill in the air, or some rain--a little greyer the day, the more seeming sensory information there is. Crisper air.

    Not so much into the hearing. At these times music is distracting, a little claustrophobic.

    Freaky.


    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    If I may misinterpret your OP: isnt that called voyeurism ? ;D
    I freely admit to looking at girls during these Se-zone moments.

    I freely admit to looking at girls.

    I do suspect that should everything else in the INTJ make-up be catered too, something for the Ni, a bit of Te direction, some Fi feeling, and if all of this winds us up in bed, then that sex is going to be something else again... look out below, coz here come the Se-x! :horor:

  3. #13
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    Default MMmmm...

    So what's the feeling? Dunno. It's a little like everything else is done with and there isn't a particular feeling, it's just a sense explosion. And for me, it's always the world through the eyes. I'm aware of seeing and actively looking. There's a physical feeling component--I'll like it if there's a chill in the air, or some rain--a little greyer the day, the more seeming sensory information there is. Crisper air.
    ok, i kind of get the understanding here...this helps..



    [QUOTE]
    Not so much into the hearing. At these times music is distracting, a little claustrophobic.
    Freaky.
    If sounds are distracting...and you must SEE things...are colors more vivid, shapes, textures more alive??
    Also, when you say distracting...is it almost irritating or overload, like they talk about in autism spectrum disorders, or is it just 'taking away from what you are looking at" and kind of lessening the experience or something else entirely?

  4. #14
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecan111 View Post
    If sounds are distracting...and you must SEE things...are colors more vivid, shapes, textures more alive??
    More present, maybe. I'm aware at those times less of colour and more of line, shape, form. Modern architecture is crap at these times. Sterile. The sense is of reaching out into the world and finding a complex physical environment. I see patterns, shapes. Colour does play a part. Texture I could do without. The random and the ugly join up into a complex whole and become beautiful. And stay beautiful too.

    (Channelling John Nash)


    Also, when you say distracting...is it almost irritating or overload, like they talk about in autism spectrum disorders, or is it just 'taking away from what you are looking at" and kind of lessening the experience or something else entirely?
    Dunno.

    I'll go ahead and speculate, but.

    Se being fourth, it's subordinate to the other functions. I guess this means there'll be some sensory information that is prefered, something that fits in with Te/Fi priorities. I guess--totally and utterly just guess--it's Te that imposes some preferences, because it's the other extraverted function. How this works out, I totally don't know. But I guess it means a focus on "things."

    Or maybe it's that music is a pre-manufactured thing, it limits the sensory environment to listening, and dominates. That's what it feels like to me.

    One thing about music... it does have a place in my scheme of things. I have a harddrive worth of MP3s and I'll often leave it playing of an evening when I walk out of the house to go and do things with people. Then later, when I get back home, before turning on the lights, I'll sit down on the edge of the sofa, and let the music play on, low volume, random tune selections, and stare out the window. This all happens before a sense of home coming, and the purpose is... winding down? But I need the window for this to work. The window looks out over a lake to a bunch of distant buildings and busy roads with street lights. I watch the lights.

    The music acts as a kind of filter, maybe. I'll listen but not actively. Sometimes I'll hear it with far greater clarity than usual. Other times it'll just be there as a kind of... layer of something slowing down the return to home-bound introversion? Making the switch from Se to Ni, maybe.

    It's fun. Mystical. Now that I know it's possible to do that, I miss it if I just walk in the door and switch on the light.





    (Be careful understanding ISFP via INTJ words: not only is this Se stuff vague to me, ISFPs are backwards ENTJs.)

  5. #15
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    More present, maybe. I'm aware at those times less of colour and more of line, shape, form.
    Colour does play a part. Texture I could do without. The random and the ugly join up into a complex whole and become beautiful. And stay beautiful too.
    (Channelling John Nash)

    now this does familiar to previous comments i have heard...its the lines and shapes that seem to stand out somehow...i wish i could experience this momentarily due to the beauty part you said...
    i experience looking at the sunrise and sunset and lots of outdoors as God-given...just incredible beauty, but i am sure i don't experience it like you mention...there is an emotional component for me and i can cry at these but i don't really see line and form sticking out..





    Or maybe it's that music is a pre-manufactured thing, it limits the sensory environment to listening, and dominates. That's what it feels like to me.
    am i interpreting this right? is this more about experiencing what is REAL and NATURE, outdoors ....all the visual of the world in its sensational glory...rather than man made?



    The music acts as a kind of filter, maybe. I'll listen but not actively. Sometimes I'll hear it with far greater clarity than usual. Other times it'll just be there as a kind of... layer of something slowing down the return to home-bound introversion? Making the switch from Se to Ni, maybe

    It's fun. Mystical. Now that I know it's possible to do that, I miss it if I just walk in the door and switch on the light..
    is it possible that it is the slowing of thought in the mind, rather than S to N? I ask this bec. I can do something similar..but my orientation is Ti...allowing my mind to focus on soothing anything, esp. music will bring my senses alive and slow my mind, although over the more recent past, my thinking has slowed considerably. Its strange but very nice...much more peaceful and i can detect when i am going into my head easily now. I can also stop it pretty easily from drifting up into thinking...really different but nice.

  6. #16
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Actually, I'm wrong about colour being less important. Form and line are attended to as physical structure, making the whole, and colour is...

    When thinking about these things, colour is difficult to focus on alone because it becomes abstracted. In the actual moment it's there as a property of the thing, like indivisible. And for me, if colour weren't important, I wouldn't have this interest in overcast days... crisper air makes crisper colour. But it's the form, the structure, the thing as there, that stands out. The sense of a physical world.

    I suppose it's only complex and weird-seeming because I'm trying to make it into Ni language.


    The physical world... it's there! Who knew.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    It seems like Se is the INTJ's unexpected secret. I think we use it more than we acknowledge. I think also it is fairly distant from our conscious main priorities. But I think it's there every day.

    I find for myself that there are times when it feels literally like a switch is thrown and suddenly I'm in the Se-zone. It particularly happens after other events. Like for me, I'll finish teaching classes for the day and I'll be packing up the books and whatnot, and as is usual, for reasons I don't understand, I'll hear, and sometimes start to sing, a snippet from Radiohead's Exit Music, "Wake, from your sleep, the drying of your tears....". Like that song. ("Breathe, keep breathing, I can't do this alone.") And it really does feel like waking up. And then it's time to walk home, and the walk home will be a sensory ride.

    It's not psychedelic or nuthin.

    And sometimes I'll be aware of being unable to attend to my senses. Like for example if I'm on a stretch of road that usually includes looking at stuff but there's some serious, uncomfortable issue occupying my thinking. I'll be aware of being unable to escape out into the world.

    So what's the feeling? Dunno. It's a little like everything else is done with and there isn't a particular feeling, it's just a sense explosion. And for me, it's always the world through the eyes. I'm aware of seeing and actively looking. There's a physical feeling component--I'll like it if there's a chill in the air, or some rain--a little greyer the day, the more seeming sensory information there is. Crisper air.

    Not so much into the hearing. At these times music is distracting, a little claustrophobic.

    Freaky.




    I freely admit to looking at girls during these Se-zone moments.

    I freely admit to looking at girls.

    I do suspect that should everything else in the INTJ make-up be catered too, something for the Ni, a bit of Te direction, some Fi feeling, and if all of this winds us up in bed, then that sex is going to be something else again... look out below, coz here come the Se-x! :horor:
    I think I really agree with you on the Se. I feel so much more comfortable with Se then I do with Fi, odd as that sounds.

    I also agree with you on that "escaping out into the world concept." I don't know if I am truly identifying with you or just misconstruing what you said. I get this feeling sometimes that I'm trapped in a surreal world (my world). As if I am viewing things through a lens or box that I'm trapped in. This is usually when I'm feeling dissociated/alienated. It's such a strange feeling. I don't know if you get what I am saying, but I think we are in accordance here. =)

    I don't know if the above mentioned description is an interaction of my Se and Fi, but that's my theory.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    I know what you're talking about Kalach. 'Sensory Explosion' is a good way to put it, and when its not there I can go into the extreme opposite where almost nothing outside my 'self' registers because I'm so lost in my world.

    Sunrises/Sunsets, Flowers, Water, watching Fire, Watching fields of plants move to the wind... All of these things sometimes get my SE in gear. But, I have to say that even when I'm in this mode... its not so much a feeling of being 'in' the picture, as much as 'observing' the picture. I still don't feel a part of it, but kind of like an outsider dropped onto a foreign planet as a tourist and I know my time there is limited.

    When I go for a long stretch without this kind of sensory input I get restless, the same way I would if I went for a long time without being able to retreat into my head.

    Its a fun balance. I've learned to keep a camara with me at all times because when these Se moments happen, I tend to be able to take some breathtaking pictures.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I think these moments may be Se with Ni running in the background as opposed to the other way around. I was wandering around today and just thought I might take pictures for a bit - it was very spontaneous, one thing lead to the other (har). And I started noticing things, but not consciously so, just like being drawn to things and then noticing why. It could be texture or colours or light...but always, always, it would have some form of meaning to me (Ni). Contrast and irony are meaningful aspects that return often. It's like there's a concept inherent in all of them (Ni), but seen in a different light (Se). Like a different kind of weirdo insights.

    In the beginning I felt like I was being too deliberate about it, looking for things that might be pretty - as I went along it was me and the environment and I just went with whatever "spoke to me" and I liked the pictures much better. I love the surprises my camera gives me. This extra eye sometimes shows me things I hadn't in mind when I took the photograph at all and it forces me to focus differently.

    It was very relaxing and I came home happier and probably healthier than I'd left.

    I like MMR's insider/observer distinction, though, I feel like it applies to me as well.

    EDIT: My brother is an estP (and a much more professional photographer than I am) and we have a very different approach to pictures, the reverse primary and fourth function thing really comes out. It's great to learn from each other, though. In fact, I took a picture just because I was blown away by the texture this evening, so scratch the always always in the first post.

  10. #20
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I guess Ni's always running in the background, but a particular thing I notice about these states is they are, by and large, without thought. Satisfactorily so. I don't draw conclusions, or make too many associations. I will sometimes be prompted to recall similar environmental sensations, but I guess being in the throes of Se will sometimes ring up a little Si too.

    That absence of thought is interesting. It's like the opposite of what should be going on. But for some reason, it usually feels wholly suitable. (Like meaningful recreation?) So long as it doesn't go on endlessly.



    Withouta, yep, but I don't know the role of Fi in all this. Maybe there isn't one. Except perhaps if Fi is having a (healthy) crisis on something, Se is resolutely fourth priority and can't be reached because Fi's hogging the line.

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