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  1. #151
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Couldn't they be thinking the same thing about you? Who determines the 'winner'?
    The objective and conceptual third party of logic. Unfortunately, there's no litmus test for when it agrees with you.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The objective and conceptual third party of logic. Unfortunately, there's no litmus test for when it agrees with you.
    Exactly. So, then it shouldn't be that hard to make clear then, should it?

    If it is hard to make clear, then, either you're not doing a good job of presenting the logic clearly, or it isn't objective and thus, has enough holes to be up for attack, interpretation.

  3. #153
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Exactly. So, then it shouldn't be that hard to make clear then, should it?

    If it is hard to make clear, then, either you're not doing a good job of presenting the logic clearly, or it isn't objective and thus, has enough holes to be up for attack, interpretation.
    Even if you make it clear to someone, that doesn't mean they'll admit to it. Then it just comes down to whether you care enough about what other person or the spectators think.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Since noz was so nice at letting us all take stab at SJs, I figured I'd give the SJs (and the rest of us ) a chance to annoy some NT's. So what are your fav strategies to drive an NT up the wall?

    Personally, I love the emo-bomb, though I use it with care.

    Other than that, getting them riled up about their new pet-theory and deliberately playing 'dumb' aka misunderstanding what they're saying completely works brilliantly as well.

    And then there's the ever popular 'I know you're just bullshitting but I won't engage you and give you any ammo'-tactic which is lovely too.


    NT's, be sure to thank Noz for this thread
    This pattern of argument is almost guaranteed to annoy me:

    Person claims that x is true.

    I refute x.

    Person then cheerfully and nonchalantly agrees with refutation of x, and asserts that they had always claimed y.

    :steam:

  5. #155
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Exactly. So, then it shouldn't be that hard to make clear then, should it?

    If it is hard to make clear, then, either you're not doing a good job of presenting the logic clearly, or it isn't objective and thus, has enough holes to be up for attack, interpretation.
    Sometimes, though, it's not even that. Sometimes one party thinks he/she has won when the other side has simply given up trying to argue with them, or has decided that there's no point in continuing.

    Also, sometimes people think they're being logical when it's just their values feeling logical to them. This can happen to NTs, too, though NTs are usually scanning their systems for traces of subjectivity constantly. We're always trying to find the holes in our own thinking before someone else can beat us to it, and the cardinal sin is to not be objective.

    But really, my original statement was more along the lines of pertaining to the OP, so subjectively that is what makes my NT head explode--someone thinking they've won the argument when I don't judge that to be the case, or if I don't think they're being logical at all.
    Something Witty

  6. #156
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Winning is my favourite word
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #157
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    But really, my original statement was more along the lines of pertaining to the OP, so subjectively that is what makes my NT head explode--someone thinking they've won the argument when I don't judge that to be the case, or if I don't think they're being logical at all.

    Frankly, I would not care whether my opponent thinks (s)he has "won" the argument or not, even if I would not think (s)he has.

    What we adults do or think in private, is only up to our concerns. I find the idea to "convert" people around me to be quite repulsive.

    For most trivial matters, it's only a game.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  8. #158
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    Nope. She was right the first time.
    You mean when she first came here and started the thread, "Another ENTP"?

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post441754

    How to mess with an NT's head? Be an ENFP.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #159
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Even if you make it clear to someone, that doesn't mean they'll admit to it. Then it just comes down to whether you care enough about what other person or the spectators think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Sometimes, though, it's not even that. Sometimes one party thinks he/she has won when the other side has simply given up trying to argue with them, or has decided that there's no point in continuing.

    Also, sometimes people think they're being logical when it's just their values feeling logical to them. This can happen to NTs, too, though NTs are usually scanning their systems for traces of subjectivity constantly. We're always trying to find the holes in our own thinking before someone else can beat us to it, and the cardinal sin is to not be objective.
    Fair enough, I'll give you guys that it can of course be the bull-headedness of the other side to accept what's clearly evident.

    It may be my ENTP side coming out, that fails to give up in convincing someone only when it is so clear as day. If I am right, objectively so, it cannot help but be clear. And, I won't give up until the other side admits. Or, forced to admit 'cause they're cornered so. (you wanna know what bull-headed is like? let's rock!)

    It bugs me, people carrying false knowledge around. Quite a bit. OCD-level so.
    I have to work on letting go.

  10. #160
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    the good thing is, you are never right, when she is naked
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

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