[INTP] How to seduce an INTP...

[jenocyde]

For some people it's not as simple as liking/not liking.

I think I speak for most INTP's when I say that it usually takes time for us to get a solid sense of direction in any relationship, before we are willing to commit fully to it.

+1. That's a very good point.

And you were both seeing other people, it doesn't matter to what degree. Then you had the talk where you asked her to stop and said you would too. So she did and you did. What's the problem?

When I'm dating someone in the early stages, my thoughts go back and forth every day. It unnerves me greatly if the other person is just so sure and has no doubts. This makes me feel like he can't possibly like me, but only the image he has of me. So maybe this is a good time to really think about if you really like her and what those reasons are. Or just find someone else that you can communicate better with. In other words, is she really worth all this trouble to you?

 

[Shimmy]

For some people it's not as simple as liking/not liking.

I think I speak for most INTP's when I say that it usually takes time for us to get a solid sense of direction in any relationship, before we are willing to commit fully to it.

Agreed, I'm a very social guy who has no problems to talk to complete strangers, and make them feel comfortable around me. However establishing an emotional connection.

I like it if a person can call me out on my bullshit and tells me how I'm undermining my own happiness (point nr. 1). Also challenging me to achieve something better then I currently have is a good motivation (2). Don't tell me to do something, but offer it as a better alternative without discrediting the other options (3).

A great example was when I was in my last year of high school, my grades were so poor the school either offered me a choice of making exams of an easier education type or do the entire year again. I pondered on this for a while but couldn't find what the best option would be. Both of them are in itself acceptable options, but neither of them really appealed to me.

Then later when I was talking with a friend of my mother, we were discussing the situation. In short he said:

1. "Let me get this straight, you don't have to choose either of the offered choices. You can still make the exams with poor entry grades as long as you finish a lot of open projects on a really short term?"
- Making me realize there was a better option.

2. "You're more then competent enough to do this, you're the smartest young man I've ever met, just get yourself together and spend some time on your school work."
- Challenged me. I felt such a shiver through my body when he said this, cause I at that time realized I always knew I could seriously do this and that other people had just talked me out of it.

3. "If you finish high school this year, on the level you're currently at, you can go to university next year and you'll be free of all this. You can get on with your life. Make a fresh start, and do what you want."
- Making me realize this really was the better option for me without discrediting the other options.

4. "What do YOU really want."
- Me answering: "You make total sense, I'm going for it."

In other words. I'd tell this girl again that you really love her, and tell her you'll be there for her if she wants to, but that playing these emotional games is getting to her as much as they are getting to you, and that she's not going to be happy about it. This other guy is her ex, the relationship must have ended for some reason.

Unfortunately nobody can tell you the exact words to say to her. We don't know the situation half as well as you do. You also work in a much different way from me. I'd pre-script questions I'd ask her and have a full story ready before I'd go and talk to her. That is not necessary however if you don't like the idea of speaking from the mind instead of from the hearth.

Wait a bit for the other people to either disagree or agree with my post. Rationally speaking it's a bit unreliable to go from one guy's experience, even if he happens to score the same as the subject on a psychology test.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Oh my goodness why on EARTH would I purposely go back and forth to be mentally cruel to her on purpose?! No way.

I think Ruffled is correct - I guess me dating other girls was a bigger deal to her than I realized. The sad fact is I didn't want to date other girls and told her that. She said "no - you need to go date other people, and I would like to date other people too, etc" and was very insistent on it. She didn't say it one time casually. It was all the time.

So... I finally thought wow she really wants me to do this. I started dating them and never did one thing with any of them other than talk. She knew this. Then she would pressure me to "hook up with them" and say things like "she's hot you need to hit it" and "I really hope you're not holding back on these girls because of me you really should hook up with them." Literally pressuring me all of the time about it.

And yes she went back to the ex (sexually) before our big talk the other day, and only just now told me about it. She keeps telling me they are not together.

And yes I think it's a good point between sex and love. She can have sex without love being involved I guess. I can't.

At any rate our communication impairment is what has lead to this. I was up front and honest from the get go. I told her I liked her and wanted to date her and her alone. That's when she started in on that whole "no go date others and don't hold back" thing. I wish she could have just been direct with me, instead of setting up these little testing games... I didn't even know I was being tested. I thought she WAS being direct in what she was saying - turns out she wasn't.

I don't WANT to lose her but I'm just tired of being given the run around. The other girls I date are consistent and linear in their behavior. INTP girl isn't.

I just don't think she likes me or she wouldn't be playing what feels like these games.

And to answer another poster - no I am not in it for the chase. I TRULY LIKE HER.

Hmm..............INTP's generally don't play games. Three things that would really help me out to gauge her state of mind: How old is she? How long was the relationship with her ex? How did it end?

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

INTP's generally don't play games.

Once again, this thread:

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-cutting-me-off-cold-turkey-2.html#post646500

It's all the exact same psychology, from what I can see; just manifested differently, in a different circumstance.

To paraphrase Tallulah's response:

In [her] mind, it isn't about you, it's about what he's doing wrong--why [SHE] [is unhelpfully attached to you]--so he's trying out a few scenarios to fix it. Because probably in [her] head, he's flexing and thinking that it's not [reasonable to change what she sees as your nature], and he can relate to that. So rather than say, "[I want you to devote yourself to me]," he flexes, and figures out how to temporarily "fix" the "problem" of [her] [attraction to you] until you [are no longer a temptation]. he's probably trying to make it more convenient for you, but since emotional things aren't really a "system," it doesn't work.

It sounds like she's trying to be exceptionally reasonable, and is just being a bit of an idiot about it. Of course her decision -- telling you to go do your thing; never mind her -- is unconsciously tearing her to ribbons, but she's telling herself that's okay. It's just emotions; she'll just have to deal with it, one way or the other. It's her responsibility. Then it becomes too much, so she finds an outlet in this other dude. Still, it all makes more sense than asking you to change for her. Which is what she seems to think any relationship with you would involve.

In a situation like this, what you would need to do is reach through and convince her that her fundamental assumption, on which she based all this reasoning, was wrong. Which you say you did, to initially positive results.

And then... this other business. Hum.

 

[ring the bell]

For some people it's not as simple as liking/not liking.

I think I speak for most INTP's when I say that it usually takes time for us to get a solid sense of direction in any relationship, before we are willing to commit fully to it.

I agree. I think it's well said throughout this thread. INTP's just have to be at a certain level of trust with the person before we can fully open up and be comfortable with them. It's just how it is. We don't readily dive into that abyss of emotional uncertainty. We think about EVERYTHING hardcore and with intensity. Relationships aren't really any different.

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

The difference is that relationships are never built on anything definite, and our understanding of emotions is shaky at best, so in our rather ingenious analysis we tend to work with some really strange assumptions.

Were they absolutely true, our reason would be flawless! At least there's a pretty easy formula to our obliviousness. And all it really takes to snap us into line is identifying our shaky premise, and pointing it out to us.

 

[nomadic]

Oh my goodness why on EARTH would I purposely go back and forth to be mentally cruel to her on purpose?! No way.

I think Ruffled is correct - I guess me dating other girls was a bigger deal to her than I realized. The sad fact is I didn't want to date other girls and told her that. She said "no - you need to go date other people, and I would like to date other people too, etc" and was very insistent on it. She didn't say it one time casually. It was all the time.

So... I finally thought wow she really wants me to do this. I started dating them and never did one thing with any of them other than talk. She knew this. Then she would pressure me to "hook up with them" and say things like "she's hot you need to hit it" and "I really hope you're not holding back on these girls because of me you really should hook up with them." Literally pressuring me all of the time about it.

And yes she went back to the ex (sexually) before our big talk the other day, and only just now told me about it. She keeps telling me they are not together.

And yes I think it's a good point between sex and love. She can have sex without love being involved I guess. I can't.

At any rate our communication impairment is what has lead to this. I was up front and honest from the get go. I told her I liked her and wanted to date her and her alone. That's when she started in on that whole "no go date others and don't hold back" thing. I wish she could have just been direct with me, instead of setting up these little testing games... I didn't even know I was being tested. I thought she WAS being direct in what she was saying - turns out she wasn't.

I don't WANT to lose her but I'm just tired of being given the run around. The other girls I date are consistent and linear in their behavior. INTP girl isn't.

I just don't think she likes me or she wouldn't be playing what feels like these games.

And to answer another poster - no I am not in it for the chase. I TRULY LIKE HER.

seeker,

my situation is so similiar to yours that it is pretty eerie.

She told me the same thing about me meeting other girls, and her reactions would look soooo pissed off, when I would talk about other girls. I would tell myself I was imagining it. And I would never ask her about what guy she is talking to etc... then the one time I did, she makes a HUGE deal about how Im not in a position to ask her. Im just like, wtf? you're overreacting, you make it seem like I ask you all the time.

Either way, she is right, that we are not in a position to ask about each other's who you went out with etc... and I was right too, that she is overreacting if I ask once in a while, considering she asked me several times, more than I did. She really got pissed off cus I said I was asking if a guy took her to the supermarket, then I wouldn't have to worry about her anymore if it was a guy, cus she will have some other guy take care of her. And she got SUPER pissed off at that, telling me not to worry about her, but not telling me if it was a guy or not.

anyways, the way I see it, I would do one of four things in your shoes:

1) Start banging these other girls, and mention how you started to have sex too, because you feel hurt.

2) Understand her immaturity about the situation, and sleep with her

3) wallow and toil in front of her and see where that goes (probably not well considering her immaturity about the situation)

4) drop her, forget about her completely. But don't tell her why. When you start digging another girl, she will most likely contact you in some way and see how you feel then.

1,2 you kind of have to be like " I don't gib a puck" to do it, 4, I would do it after you meet a girl you really like, then drop contact with her, and 3, well if you do nothing to prepare for anything, thats where you will end up.

Personally, I think doing 2 will work the best. But it requires totally saying " I DUN GIB A PUCK" and some internal distancing (which you deserve at this point). And things will start working itself out.

 

[Shimmy]

1) Start banging these other girls, and mention how you started to have sex too, because you feel hurt.

2) Understand her immaturity about the situation, and sleep with her

3) wallow and toil in front of her and see where that goes (probably not well considering her immaturity about the situation)

4) drop her, forget about her completely. But don't tell her why. When you start digging another girl, she will most likely contact you in some way and see how you feel then.

1,2 you kind of have to be like " I don't gib a puck" to do it, 4, I would do it after you meet a girl you really like, then drop contact with her, and 3, well if you do nothing to prepare for anything, thats where you will end up.

Personally, I think doing 2 will work the best. But it requires totally saying " I DUN GIB A PUCK" and some internal distancing (which you deserve at this point). And things will start working itself out.

This is very nice if you seek emotional retribution, but it will not get you the girl. Also I think that getting revenge this way will only make yourself feel shittier.

 

[INA]

4) drop her, forget about her completely. But don't tell her why. When you start digging another girl, she will most likely contact you in some way and see how you feel then.

Monumental fail. I see you haven't met many any intp women.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Sometimes it surprises me what some people can conjure up in the name of love.

I love this world.

 

[ring the bell]

The difference is that relationships are never built on anything definite, and our understanding of emotions is shaky at best, so in our rather ingenious analysis we tend to work with some really strange assumptions.

Were they absolutely true, our reason would be flawless! At least there's a pretty easy formula to our obliviousness. And all it really takes to snap us into line is identifying our shaky premise, and pointing it out to us.

Very well put.

I can't help but to feel for the INTP in Seeker's scenario. It's just that I've been in that same exact place myself. She's getting what she was afraid of to begin with, which is to feel like your world has been thrown into a blender and then you have to figure out how to put it all back together. Love/ relationships just don't come easily to an INTP. Of course, that's not to say that her stumbles and uncertainty didn't hurt anyone. It did.. and maybe losing the guy in the end is the way it has to be for her to learn how to not do that again. Sad lesson for her/ bad time for seeker, who unbeknownst to him, ended up getting thrown into a blender!

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

The fact that the ex thing happened before the big talk...forget about that. Anything that happens after that big talk - pay attention too. It seems like you've been honest and up front and that's all you can do. If she still has feelings for her ex (a major possibility if you're still encountering a wishy-washy attitude from her) then let her be and move on for now. Don't burn the bridge though!

 

[nozflubber]

And all it really takes to snap us into line is identifying our shaky premise, and pointing it out to us.

fucking traitor! stop giving them useful advice

 

[seeker22]

I've noticed a pattern. She seems to like me *best* when I am *unavailable* in some way. I think it feels safer to her, less pressure or something (even though I don't pressure her I think she creates pressure in her own mind or something).

She also *comes to her senses* anytime I give her a lot of space. It's like she needs a lot of time to think and process or something.

Every time I leave her alone, she comes back with *I know I like you I was just too paralyzed to do anything about it.* Everytime we then start up again, she freaks and pulls away, saying she is *confused.* That's why I feel like giving it up. This cycle happens over and over again.

To answer a poster, she is 35. Her ex she was with for roughly one year. She says he is not intellectually stimulating and their emotional connection is different than ours whatever that means. And by the way, they were never boyfriend/girlfriend. They would just "hang out."

I understand you identifying with the INTP girl Ruffled. Sheesh you are probably having flashbacks. Poor babe. =( I know your situation is probably different, but I do have to say I can't help but feel that this particular INTP undermined/sabotaged the situation herself by purposefully pushing me away. She had me, I let her know it, she pushed me away, she comes back, tells me she likes me, I say me too let's do this, she pushes me away again... I don't understand.

 

[seeker22]

The fact that the ex thing happened before the big talk...forget about that. Anything that happens after that big talk - pay attention too. It seems like you've been honest and up front and that's all you can do. If she still has feelings for her ex (a major possibility if you're still encountering a wishy-washy attitude from her) then let her be and move on for now. Don't burn the bridge though!

+1

I do have to say that our arrangement, after she didn't want to be exclusive, was we expected nothing from one another but *honesty.* I told her everything that happened on my dates - which was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. lol

She however had started sleeping with the ex (fwb) and did not reveal it to me right away. Kinda shady in my eyes.

I always said just let me know if you hookup with someone so that I can determine what to do from there (b/c in the past she has tried to hookup with me while she was hooking up with the ex and I don't roll like that - I only found out about it through a friend and confronted her and she came clean... then dumped him for me... clearly you can see the ping ponging pattern here).

That's why I think I'm going to bail. She just can't seem to decide between me and the ex(fwb). She probably gets different things from both of us and she's pretty much having her cake and eat it too.

She tells me I'm a way high notch up from him and even though she likes it a lot it is scary to her - out of her comfort zone.

Ugh. I think I best walk away, without burning the bridge, and say call me when you figure your stuff out. The problem is I have done that before. She always comes back, says she wants me, then I say ok, then she pushes me away and returns to the ex (fwb).

 

[Verfremdungseffekt]

This girl really does sound like she needs to pull herself together. And, I agree, maybe see some hard cause and effect, so she can learn from all this.

Thing is, this level of a communication disjunct doesn't bode well. It's deeper than any one thing either of you has done, or will do. I'd suggest you move along. Don't blame her or yourself; it's just the way these things work out. An unfortunate alignment of the humors, if you will.

 

[ring the bell]

^^
I second Aderack.. I think you are justified in walking away. Fighting for what you want is good and all, but sometimes the battle gets to be not worth the prize in the end. You guys probably both learned a lesson on communication, which may have been the whole point of the headache to begin with! and keep your chin up!

 

[nomadic]

Monumental fail. I see you haven't met many any intp women.

at that point, you'd have to have already given up on her. throw the plan to get with her out the window.

from her perspective, he's just "busy and unavailable".

im just telling the guy to save his own feelings. its the 21st century you know. girls can get hurt too in this modern age.

 

[runvardh]

I wonder. After telling her to sort herself out then walking away; when she comes back all "I want you! I want you!", what's the thought on saying "prove it" instead of "ok" or "let's do it"? Would it cause more problems, would she walk away or is there a possible improvement from there?

 

[seeker22]

I wonder. After telling her to sort herself out then walking away; when she comes back all "I want you! I want you!", what's the thought on saying "prove it" instead of "ok" or "let's do it"? Would it cause more problems, would she walk away or is there a possible improvement from there?

Hmmmmm... me like.

Good idea!