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  1. #31
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    That's a fallacy based on people's misinterpretation of the J dichotomy which reflects an introverts auxiliary, which means it's not even the introverts dominant function. IJs are dominated by a perceiving function, IPs by a judging function. If you argue the point that a judging function will be more controlling than a perceiving function then INTPs are dominated by one, not INTJs.
    I didn't argue that point, I'm just going by the type desciptions. I'm not sure what you mean by IJ being dominated by a perceiving function? Are you refering to Ti and Ni?

    "INTPs are pensive, analytical folks. They may venture so deeply into thought as to seem detached, and often actually are oblivious to the world around them." Not controlling.

    "INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types"..."INTJs can rise to management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing their abilities..." Controlling.

    "ENTJs have a natural tendency to marshall and direct." Controlling.

    From TypeLogic Home Page

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    2. I think both can be as equally "independent" or "controling" depending on the Enneagram and what the situation is.

    3. The real distinguishing factors:

    -ENTJ is more likely to enjoy regurgitating random factoids (Te)
    -ENTJ is more likely to be involved in the sensing world (Se)
    -ENTJ is more likely to go from extremes of: hyper rational to loner downer (ISFP shadow)

    INTJ is probably more even keeled in their extremes of: hyper rational to wallowing introvert
    INTJ is more likely to have issues with the sensing world (athletics, motor skills, driving)
    INTJ is less likely to enjoy "knowing everything" than the ENTJ.

    4. My sister is INTJ and I am ENTJ. main differences:
    -I have 100x as much energy as she does
    -I am 100x a better, faster and more aggressive driver
    -I enjoy debate and regurgitating factiods 100x more than her
    -I enjoy much harsher, louder and more intense music
    -I have wider extremes

    otherwise we are somewhat similar.
    My best friend is an ENTJ. She does every single thing you mentioned.

  3. #33
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    I didn't argue that point, I'm just going by the type desciptions. I'm not sure what you mean by IJ being dominated by a perceiving function? Are you refering to Ti and Ni?

    "INTPs are pensive, analytical folks. They may venture so deeply into thought as to seem detached, and often actually are oblivious to the world around them." Not controlling.

    "INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types"..."INTJs can rise to management positions when they are willing to invest time in marketing their abilities..." Controlling.

    "ENTJs have a natural tendency to marshall and direct." Controlling.

    From TypeLogic Home Page
    Then as a nicety, and based on your rudimentary references, I will refrain.

  4. #34
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Then as a nicety, and based on your rudimentary references, I will refrain.
    Is that like a back-handed way of saying sorry, you're right?

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    Incidentally, INTJs feel the need to be right about everything

  6. #36
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Incidentally, INTJs feel the need to be right about everything
    That's true, but I don't think it's a difference between ENTJs and INTJs

  7. #37
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    Is that like a back-handed way of saying sorry, you're right?
    No, just my way of being nice instead of going ballistic on your response. You responded by referring to descriptions. No one uses descriptions to argue type. That was way too elementary when there are so many principles of type that could have been pointed to. Anyone with a basic understanding of type knows that if refering to any IJ type means they will dominate with a perceiving function (ISJs=Si/INJs=Ni) and IP with a dominant judging function (ITP=Ti/IFP=Fi). I wasn't sure whether to unload on your response or leave it alone. I merely chose the latter.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    No, just my way of being nice instead of going ballistic on your response. You responded by referring to descriptions. No one uses descriptions to argue type. That was way too elementary when there are so many principles of type that could have been pointed to. Anyone with a basic understanding of type knows that if refering to any IJ type means they will dominate with a perceiving function (ISJs=Si/INJs=Ni) and IP with a dominant judging function (ITP=Ti/IFP=Fi). I wasn't sure whether to unload on your response or leave it alone. I merely chose the latter.
    Yes, I understand that but it was never mentioned in the original post so I wondered why you referred to it. There is really nothing to unload on. Regardless of whether or not you argue by desciription or preferences the bottom line is that INTPs are not controlling types.

  9. #39
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed111 View Post
    Yes, I understand that but it was never mentioned in the original post so I wondered why you referred to it. There is really nothing to unload on. Regardless of whether or not you argue by desciription or preferences the bottom line is that INTPs are not controlling types.
    The original topic was similarities in the NTJs. My assertion was that INTJs have more in common with ENTP since they have a similar hierarchy in their basic functions. Did you notice that the others who responded knew exactly what I was referring to? It was extremely basic knowledge that you should have picked up on. As for the controlling I am referring to temperament and Berensí interaction theory of grouping types together based on how they choose to influence others in directing or informing communications, how they define relationships by initiating or responding, and how they focus their attention on a specific outcome when interacting by focusing on control or movement.

    These are basics understandings, which if you do not know, then why would you respond? Before you started to type, I would hope you have at least gained some knowledge of the subject in order to interact, and you should know that common use of words do not equate to type terms, i.e., E/I does not equate to being outgoing or shy, T/F does not equate to intelligence or emotions, respectively. Control in this instance merely means INTPs control their information for a specific outcome, as do ENTJs. INTJs do not control their information, because they prefer to see movement as does ENTPs.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ed111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    I am referring to temperament and Berensí interaction theory of grouping types together based on how they choose to influence others in directing or informing communications, how they define relationships by initiating or responding, and how they focus their attention on a specific outcome when interacting by focusing on control or movement.

    Chart the Course (INTJ, ISTP,ISTJ & INFJ) and Get Things Going (ENTP,ESFP,ESTJ & ENFP)types like to see movement in a matter therefore they are more open in their discussion with people to assure they have all the tools and to see movement in a situation. Behind the Scenes (INTP,ISFP,ISFJ & INFP) and In Charge (ENTJ, ESTP, ESTJ & ENFJ) types prefer to be in control, either with their information (the former) or of people (the latter) to assure a specific outcome.

    In this case as with all discussion of type, you will not get it by using your everyday understanding of language, i.e., E/I does not equate to being outgoing or shy/T/F does not equate to intelligence or emotions, respectively. Control has a different meaning and INTPs (based on their interaction style) control their information when looking for a specific outcome.
    I am aware of the similar preferences and how in that sense INTPs are related to ENTJS. Perhaps I missed an earlier post, or that I was too focused on the word control, or assigned a specific meaning to it.

    Thank you for clarifying. I need to investigate Beren's interaction theory it's not something I've come across before. From that point of view I can see how INTPs would be controlling. I am enlightened, thanks.

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