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  1. #541
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    jeno's not the only one with an internet problem.

    i almost asked for the app link.
    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    wait - are you joking or not? I can't tell. so there is no app??
    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Yes, there is an actual app, I think these peeps also designed another app that forces you to have no internet access for a pre-set amount of time, interestingly titled, Freedom.

    Just looked it up: Steve Lambert
    Hehe. Yeah, it's an app. It works very well. Too well. Sometimes I set it to block sites for two hours and then I try to go and undo the block and I can't. Even if you quit the app or restart your computer. In other words, it keeps me from subverting my own will power. Genius.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  2. #542
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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  3. #543
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    Yeah. I'm like, "Synarch from the past you fucked me good!"
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  4. #544
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Yeah. I'm like, "Synarch from the past you fucked me good!"
    Struck my funny bone! :yim_rolling_on_the_
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  5. #545
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Heh.

  6. #546
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    Struck my funny bone! :yim_rolling_on_the_
    Since I live in the moment I always think of each period as being a different person. So, when I save money for example, it helps if I imagine it not as putting money away where I can't spend it on cocaine and QVC, but giving it to my future self.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  7. #547
    Senior Member MonkeyGrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Since I live in the moment I always think of each period as being a different person. So, when I save money for example, it helps if I imagine it not as putting money away where I can't spend it on cocaine and QVC, but giving it to my future self.
    I think the reason it made me laugh is that I can relate. I'm always throwing away pans of brownies, making myself accountable to people for things, and sabotaging my future efforts to do something irresponsible, thinking, "Ahhh, future me, you're going to be SO pissed, but future-future me will thank me for it."
    I think I think more than you think I think.

  8. #548
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    From my perspective your only real flaw is your impulsive nature.
    Sweetie, that's not a flaw. But if that's the only thing your critical INTJ self can come up with, then I am good to go! Thanks for brightening my day!

    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    Hehe. Yeah, it's an app. It works very well. Too well. Sometimes I set it to block sites for two hours and then I try to go and undo the block and I can't. Even if you quit the app or restart your computer. In other words, it keeps me from subverting my own will power. Genius.
    My goodness, thank you dearly.

  9. #549
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyGrass View Post
    I think the reason it made me laugh is that I can relate. I'm always throwing away pans of brownies, making myself accountable to people for things, and sabotaging my future efforts to do something irresponsible, thinking, "Ahhh, future me, you're going to be SO pissed, but future-future me will thank me for it."
    I never thought of future me get screwed over to help out future-future me. Brilliant!
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  10. #550
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Hi kids, ready to go again?

    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    I saw arrogance as reflected in your statements (as honest as they may have been). You expressed judgment of the people you spoke of. It's not irrelevant to talk of the other end because that's what makes the interaction work. You may not give yourself credit for putting up with others but you certainly complained about it! I just pointed out that others probably do as well. No bouquets required but that awareness usually tempers our end of seeing our great sacrifice in putting up with others as something warranting sympathy.
    I didn't see that as judgment, as much as it was a statement - "I have to put up with things from other people that are annoying and tiresome to me". Of course I complain about it, but then again, so does everyone, as you said. That could be shadow functions manifesting to blow off steam, but it is part of my (our?) personality. I never stated that our type was the only one to experience this, but that it is a constant occurrence. Likewise, sympathy is about the last thing I was looking for - understanding where I'm coming from was more the target. Rather than "I feel for him", it's more a sense of "Well, I certainly don't see it that way, but it's valid that he does given his differences from me."

    By all means share your pleasurable ideas with others - being fun and enjoyable do not make them great however. That's a leap of faith you made all on your own.
    Great is a fully subjective opinion. You might not think them that great, but they are that way to me, because they interest me and they seem logical. You know we're not going to be upset if there is no implementation - just an acknowledgment that the idea is interesting is usually enough. Completely ignoring the idea or brushing it off as "random" without trying to understand it is the hurtful part.

    You have a point here. If the person's only agenda is bringing you down then it's not an honest debate or discussion. Having said that, your example of the child with the car -- as an ENFP, I give that benefit of doubt to everyone. There is, of course, some truth (however personal) in everyone's opinions/views. That doesn't lead me to think that I'm right 90% of the time. on the contrary, it makes me, as Blah...said, open to the idea that I may not be. "Trust me" is hardly reliable as evidence, even in a hypothetical discussion.
    "Trust me" is as much as I can give you on this one, because it doesn't follow any sort of rationality beyond human social interaction - we recognize when someone's trying to socially one-up us. The distinction between ideas and decisions was a great way of putting it earlier in the thread. That's also why we get in trouble for one-upping others often - because we either misinterpret a situation, or head off someone engaging in the process before they expect us to understand what's going on. The 90% number was a ballpark figure, meant to emphasize that we tend to be right about decisions much more often than not - when it comes to pure logical outcomes. Where our numbers may differ is that sometimes we discount the social effect variable, and the result, while satisfactory in our estimation, is much less than ideal in yours ("You know, you didn't have to just run everyone over on that one" "Well, it got done, right? That's the important part, right?")

    Ne and Ti/Ne and Fi/ whatever function suit your fancy --- everyone has a process of selecting people they choose to spend time with that works for them. What makes your process special or more reliable? Do other people like hanging out with people they find uninteresting?
    Like it was answered later in the thread, yes, some people much prefer constancy in their relationships than excitement and intrigue. I don't begrudge them that. It's just not for me.

    Again, not particularly unique as a viewpoint. People who are tangential to our lives are seen this way likely by most people.
    Maybe so, but this interpretation being seen as off-kilter is possibly the Tert Fe speaking. Like "dammit, I know I'm supposed to like people and make them feel better, but sheesh, they're boring as all hell and generally a waste of my time". Maybe the unique part isn't so much the mindset as the internal conflict that it creates, particularly when you've been raised in an overtly Fe culture (Southern US).

    This seems unfortunate. Real closeness usually implies candidness on both sides. I don't know the situation to really be able to comment on this but yes, it seems unfair. I'm not sure why you feel like you are bound by social conventions with these people you feel close to? Is it by their admission or your assumption? Just wondering aloud.
    It's both. Situations where I'll say something completely clearly and without malice, and it's interpreted as judgmental or indicative of how I consider their character. It's hard to explain to them "no, I don't think you're particularly bad, I just think all humans are pieces of shit! We all do stupid things and have silly thoughts, and no one is any better or worse than the other for it". Remember, in the Fe world, timing is everything. Ne does not like that very much. Ti will get you into trouble by either overthinking it, or trying to explain the emotion through objective language that will seem judgmental. Therefore, it's much easier to just stick with what's socially conventional. And yes, much like in the first paragraph, I'll say something completely candidly, and someone else will say "well you're just arrogant". No, I'm just saying what I think. I don't think I'm better than you (the thought is alien to us. We may think we're better than a situation, or worth better treatment than we receive, but rarely do we ever think we're unequivocally "better" than someone else. Much too subjective).

    Actually that wasn't my point at all. Why is this a zero sum game - your rules or mine. The point I was trying to make was that these rules should be a product of mutual discussion and desires. Either side deciding for the other seems strange, right?
    The problem is that the mutual discussion and desires get sidetracked very quickly when I say something objectively and bluntly, and then the Fe/Fi aux/dom gets all pissed off and chews us out for being insensitive (or thinks much less of us because of it). It's just one of the rules of the world - your style of communication dominates the expectations and standards of social interaction. Not only that, no one is faced with the idea that another person's speech does not have any emotional subtext, unless they're on one of these sites trying to figure out why this person acts so strangely. Notice the difference between the responses of others to someone being accused of being either "irrational" or "insensitive". The insensitive one usually is chided for that, and advised to be more sensitive to the other person's feelings in the future. Is anyone accused of being "irrational" ever advised to make more sense in their arguments in future disputes?

    On the pregnancy part, honestly, that's considering possible consequences which is very Ne/Ti but not really her emotions by any stretch of the imagination. It's interesting you equate them.
    Sex is a two-way street, and I'm only traveling on one side. Those thoughts are equal by my estimation because the consequences are deeply concerning to me. They're prioritized in my thinking in much the same way her feelings would be prioritized afterward. Both serve the same evolutionary purpose, I'd imagine.

    On NFs being right about intuitions and yet it being none of their business - guilty and noted, often. It's a core ability and terribly annoying when not solicited. True.
    Thanks. I'll try to give advice less often, I know you sometimes don't need it. I'll also do my best not to outwardly point out your inner motivations and cognition behind points you make in conversation - besides, it's much more effective to just make a seemingly neutral comment and let you hang yourself with your own rope

    Self-aware, to me, also implies, in addition to understanding how external stimuli affects us and how our own thinking and feeling processes work, that we understand in turn how our thinking and behavior affects our external stimuli. Everyone has an internal conversation and some people, certainly, are more insightful about themselves than others. At the same time, declaring an entire type of people as necessarily less or more self-aware than others seems to be less rooted in reality and more an attempt at yet another round of self-congratulation (which I will grant you ENTPs are particularly good at - why would others disagree, who doesn't like to hear pleasant things that apply to them).
    Yeah, I would qualify that more as externally aware as separate from self-aware. By the way, "self-awareness" isn't an undeniably good thing, either. It can very much get in the way when altruism and self-sacrifice are needed in the situation.

    For example, I'd say the prototypical ESFJ is much less "self-aware" than the prototypical ENTP. By this, I mean that the person is less acutely understanding of personal motivations and reasons they do things than the ENTP is. However, they blow us away in "external awareness". They know exactly how their actions will affect their external environment, can modify their behavior accordingly to achieve many personal goals and improve others' lives (the so-called "manipulative" nature). At the same time, with a couple of my personal ESFJ friends, personal issues that everyone else notices and we try to point out are hard to relate, unless we're talking about an issue that is seemingly unrelated, and their Ne catches something and immediately recognizes it in themselves. That's the gist of what I mean by self-aware versus externally aware.

    And yes, I realize that often it seems to be otherwise with our emotions, but that's just usually our desire and need to keep our emotions to ourselves.

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