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  1. #521
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Yes, flaws are highly subjective. Yet, to consider all personal quirks as okay and to be accepted for what they are seems to be strange at my end and may really reflect a difference in perspective here. I am constantly looking for self-improvement - assumption that there are things that need improvement and that self awareness comes with recognizing flaws. This does not imply that I have to agree with everyone who decides they know what my flaws are. I'm sure we all have agency in that regard.

    Yes, in a sense, self awareness does imply humility. In the sense that it implies that I acknowledge I have some flaws and that changing some of them may benefit me and my interactions with people. It's hard to recognize someone as self-aware who only recognizes their strengths. If the flaws are really recognized then, in my opinion, this recognition would lead to behavior alteration. If it doesn't it's not really recognizing it as a flaw - more as a quirk that some people enjoy and others don't. Isn't this a reflection of the level of self-awareness?
    Like I said before, there is always something to learn, change or grow. But I see those things as casualties of being human rather than as flaws. I doubt you'll find one single ENTP here that is not interested in growth. But we just look at it from a more positive angle, I think. I genuinely like ENTPs for this reason - the fact that they can see themselves and accept themselves. Ironically, this is the one thing that I have most problems with the xNFPs about - their constant self doubt. Humility may serve you well, but it doesn't do anything for me. Especially since I know I am going to keep growing and learning and changing and adjusting for as long as my life continues - so why bother feeling bad about it?

  2. #522
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Like I said before, there is always something to learn, change or grow. But I see those things as casualties of being human rather than as flaws. I doubt you'll find one single ENTP here that is not interested in growth. But we just look at it from a more positive angle, I think. I genuinely like ENTPs for this reason - the fact that they can see themselves and accept themselves. Ironically, this is the one thing that I have most problems with the xNFPs about - their constant self doubt. Humility may serve you well, but it doesn't do anything for me. Especially since I know I am going to keep growing and learning and changing and adjusting for as long as my life continues - so why bother feeling bad about it?
    Why does humility equal feeling bad? I don't see them as the same. Recognizing flaws does not equal self-flagellation, it is the ultimate acceptance of our humanity, as you said. Humans = flawed doesn't it? Humility is a rather positive trait. Are we just calling the same approach two different things?

    I agree on the self acceptance though - that is an admirable trait and one we NFs could do well to learn. :inserts jealous smiley:

    Edit: Funnily enough, we accept everyone so easily in real life and are often hardest on ourselves. At least for ENFPs, often to our own detriment.

  3. #523
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Like I said before, there is always something to learn, change or grow. But I see those things as casualties of being human rather than as flaws. I doubt you'll find one single ENTP here that is not interested in growth. But we just look at it from a more positive angle, I think. I genuinely like ENTPs for this reason - the fact that they can see themselves and accept themselves.

    And we accept others the same way we accept ourselves. By attempting to look honestly and understand.

  4. #524
    12 and a half weeks BerberElla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    :inserts jealous smiley:
    Sorry, just didn't think the little writing represented just how jealous it makes me feel lol.
    Echo - "So are you trying to say she is Evil"

    DeWitt - "Something far worse, she's an Idealist"

    Berb's Johari Berb's Nohari

  5. #525
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Why does humility equal feeling bad? I don't see them as the same. Recognizing flaws does not equal self-flagellation, it is the ultimate acceptance of our humanity, as you said. Humans = flawed doesn't it? Humility is a rather positive trait. Are we just calling the same approach two different things?

    I agree on the self acceptance though - that is an admirable trait and one we NFs could do well to learn. :inserts jealous smiley:
    humility |(h)yo??milit?|
    noun
    a modest or low view of one's own importance; humbleness.


    (doesn't sound so good. )

    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    And we accept others the same way we accept ourselves. By attempting to look honestly and understand.
    word.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerberElla View Post
    Sorry, just didn't think the little writing represented just how jealous it makes me feel lol.
    If this guy can do it, so can you!!


  6. #526
    Senior Member BlahBlahNounBlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    Do other people like hanging out with people they find uninteresting?

    There are many people who find interesting things to be exhausting. They don't want new or unexpected. They prefer repetitive. It feels comforting for them. Not interesting, but comforting.


    However, it could be argued that they define repetition as interesting. Even thinking about that is putting me to sleep.

  7. #527
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    humility |(h)yo??milit?|
    noun
    a modest or low view of one's own importance; humbleness.


    (doesn't sound so good. )
    Ah, explains the difference of opinion. Here's what I was tapping into:

    Answers.com
    noun= Lack of vanity or self-importance

    Free Dictionary
    Noun 1. humility - a disposition to be humble; a lack of false pride;

    Merriam Webster
    1: not proud or haughty : not arrogant or assertive
    [Don't really agree with the assertive part but can see the contradiction]

    Oxford Concise (my own copy and the one you used)
    a modest or low view of one's own importance;

    Etymologically, it comes from the Latin word for low so that strengthens the original meaning you presented. In my view, it was certainly not linked with submission or lack of pride in oneself. I am a-okay with doing away with false pride, however.
    I can see the difficulty in reconciling the two though and hence the difficulty for an ENTP. Fascinating. I've always considered myself a repository for many contradictory ideas, perhaps this is more evidence in that regard.

    Is humility really that sadness inspiring

  8. #528
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlahBlahNounBlah View Post
    However, it could be argued that they define repetition as interesting. Even thinking about that is putting me to sleep.
    Me too...thinking of routine is like counting sheep....zzzzzzz

    Good night.

    Also, you pretty much took the words out of my mouth. Interesting is subjective and sometimes comforting can be interesting.

  9. #529
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I sincerely love the hell out of you, Ergo. You are always down for the count. Thanks for sparring. x10

    (and no, that's not Fe politeness funking with your Fi personal value system. I genuinely admire you.)

  10. #530
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I sincerely love the hell out of you, Ergo. You are always down for the count. Thanks for sparring. x10

    (and no, that's not Fe politeness funking with your Fi personal value system. I genuinely admire you.)
    Likewise, and in your case, as always.

    I wouldn't stay up until 3:00am if this was uninspiring. This is fun and I enjoy it so much.

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