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  1. #421
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    For xNTPs, arguing and trading insults is like sex.
    That's a completely moronic statement. Sex doesn't even hold a candle, and if you think so, you're a nymphomaniac and a deviant.

  2. #422
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Gimme a call if you need help with that. Thats prolly my only field of expertise
    Sweet! You're on, mister.

  3. #423
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a completely moronic statement. Sex doesn't even hold a candle, and if you think so, you're a nymphomaniac and a deviant.

    Pictzres in my head, yeah baby I got pictures in my head !!!!!!!!!!!! uuhhhh uhhhhh -.-
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #424
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Sooo, do we have to make up things against ourselves or what?
    Tried that already!

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    - usually don't give a fuck
    - pompous
    - arrogant
    - insensitive
    - stubborn
    - always has to have the last word
    - everything in life is win or lose...with them the 'winner' and you the 'loser'
    - doesn't understand that sarcasm isn't for everyone
    - restless/reckless/relentless
    - ruthless delivered with a smile
    - convoluted in wording sometimes
    - procastinators
    - shit-stirrers
    - finds others' frustrations funny often
    - appears silly/goofy/approachable/charming/childlike but can turn cold and calculating within the blink of an eye
    - impatient with those they consider 'unintelligent', unless they're in the mood to impart knowledge
    - if crossed, takes the 'revenge' thing too far (depends on what is defined as revenge, some ENTPs justify it as, 'oh, they really really are wanting me to respond, so...I shall' )
    - constant frustration to those (Fs mostly) with flightiness of showing caring/emotion/depth....one second make you feel like you inspired them to poetic prophecies, next make you feel like they only vaguely recall who you are
    - unpredictable
    - attention spa....
    - hard to guage if they're laughing with you or at you
    - not very organized, nor sequential in thought
    - very few things in life are *not* a joke to them
    - ASSHOLES!!!!


    I HATE YOU, ENTPs!!!

    * no!!!....don't touch me! Just...DIE!

  5. #425
    The Memes Justify the End EcK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That's a completely moronic statement. Sex doesn't even hold a candle, and if you think so, you're a nymphomaniac and a deviant.
    what about making out AND arguing?
    Expression of the post modern paradox : "For the love of god, religions are so full of shit"

    Theory is always superseded by Fact...
    ... In theory.

    “I’d hate to die twice. It’s so boring.”
    Richard Feynman's last recorded words

    "Great is the human who has not lost his childlike heart."
    Mencius (Meng-Tse), 4th century BCE

  6. #426
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    what about making out AND arguing?
    I don't know why more people do not realize that angry sex is the best of all...

  7. #427
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ergophobe View Post
    I don't hate ENTPs, I several and two here I would consider friends (you know who you are).


    Yet, somehow their interactions with people seem to be less than completely honest. The lack of honesty isn't motivated by malevolence. On the contrary, they are very kind.

    Yet, whether with a romantic interest or a friend, they seem to be unable to express the other person's fault clearly when in conflict. They will almost always present whatever the issue is as their own fault and walk away or find a solution that only involves them changing their behavior or attitude. The person at the receiving end, if self aware will consider this a cop out and if not self aware may actually believe that they had no role in the conflict at all.
    It's a weeding out system, for me, because no conflict, at least in terms of perceiving it as a 'conflict' from my end happens, without at least some 'warnings' from me beforehand on the issue. I will say to the other not to do that, I don't like it, and most often, I've noticed, the way I say it, in a very casual mode, I think the other dismisses it.

    My xSxx best friend tells me, you don't ever confront, ever let it out! And, the thing is...whatever is an issue, I DO! I just choose to bring it up in conversation, and clearly speak it, but, without any emotional motive behind it. Which, the receipient often interprets as 'well, it's not really that important'....because I didn't scream, get heated, yell, but, was casual in my delivery. And, as soon as even an event that can become an issue happens, I address, so I nip it at the bud before it expands, making talking about it casually much easier at that stage.

    And, if the person does it again, I tell them again (same as before) but with one thing added, my previous talk as an example that we've already revisited this issue (just to remind them).

    And, then, finally, if they STILL do it again.....it shows me how much respect that person gives my words (and my words - as a representation of my ideas are very very important to me, and near and dear to me). So, after this warning, if it happens again, I just don't even bother and they're weeded out.

    So, I don't know if I do exactly what you're saying or if you perceive conflict-avoidance when it might not be the case from the ENTP?

    ^ example of when I see the *other* clearly the one maintaining the conflict and that I've tried as much as I can from my end, to be clear.

    Scenario 2:

    Do you do this? Why do ENTPs resolve conflict in this manner? Is it just to avoid hurting the other person's feelings? Isn't honesty important, especially in friendship?
    If I see my part to play in it, in any significant way, it's kinda irrelevant, from MY perspective what the other's role is, but, more about addressing my part. Just like me, you have a mouth and a brain as well. What I did, you can do as well. And, if you don't, that means you didn't *get* it. It's kinda like 'giving an answer' rather than helping the other 'figure out the answer for themselves'. I don't think the former is in any way condusive nor effective. And, tying back to my previous comment, I have already tried to address X with you, calmly, a few times, casually, meaning that it's not like I haven't tried to direct you in figuring out the answer. So, if you still don't get it...it just says to me, you don't wanna get it.

    I detest repeating myself, nagging, or whining to another...and I will not direct your behaviour to owning your faults. I will be 100% receptive as you take the steps to WANT to acknowledge your faults, sort out the clouds, but, if you are completely unaware or unwilling to acknowledge your part....I'm not gonna spell it out for you. It's the price of adulthood. I won't think for anyone else. (I am very receptive if I see the person taking steps to want to acknowledge though, but if they don't and I know that in whatever way, my own faults are there, then I'll deal with my end of it and leave it at that...it's for MY personal growth, and clearing my own end of it, I'm only responsible for myself)

    And, finally, my motto in life: OWN IT! Own your own part in whatever "it" is. OWN IT. And, I expect that from the other as well, at least if the relationship has any semblance of respect from my end.

    * btw, it takes a lot, but, I do blow up, esp. in those immovable relationships where I can't just *walk* away...and those are just...bad. bad.

    (hope that wasn't too convoluted to follow and addressed some of what you were getting at? from this one entp's pov )

  8. #428
    Senior Member epp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    people just won't hate us


    here, sweetie... i can hate you if you want me to

    (and myself)

  9. #429
    Senior Member Valuable_Money's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beyondaurora View Post
    Uh huh.

    Many ENTP's I've met have no qualms with being totally blunt and insensitive. They play devil's advocate at the most inappropriate times and are rarely serious.

    Thus far, they frustrate me more than any other type.
    I do this as well. Also I dont know any IRL ENTPs and the only fictional ones I can think of are Vash the Stampede and Kramer so I have a feeling Id like them.

    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    For xNTPs, arguing and trading insults is like sex.
    Confirmed
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh? wgah'nagl fhtagn

  10. #430
    Allergic to Mornings ergophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    It's a weeding out system, for me, because no conflict, at least in terms of perceiving it as a 'conflict' from my end happens, without at least some 'warnings' from me beforehand on the issue. I will say to the other not to do that, I don't like it, and most often, I've noticed, the way I say it, in a very casual mode, I think the other dismisses it.
    Q - Thanks for taking the time to write this down. I really appreciate it. Don't give me "the look" - you know you were included.

    I think there may be miscommunication here which I am trying to understand. How do you communicate these warnings? Is it straightforward, in saying it in so many words, " hey don't do that because..." or is it just not responding to the words/behavior? I'm trying to understand why the signs wouldn't be heeded. For me, sometimes the warning signs are so subtle that I miss them altogether or misinterpret them. I need things spelled out a little clearly so I'm wondering if it's a communication problem in that sense. Just thinking aloud to understand my own interactions with ENTPs better.


    My xSxx best friend tells me, you don't ever confront, ever let it out! And, the thing is...whatever is an issue, I DO! I just choose to bring it up in conversation, and clearly speak it, but, without any emotional motive behind it. Which, the receipient often interprets as 'well, it's not really that important'....because I didn't scream, get heated, yell, but, was casual in my delivery. And, as soon as even an event that can become an issue happens, I address, so I nip it at the bud before it expands, making talking about it casually much easier at that stage.
    This is very wise and my strategy of choice as well. Often gets ignored by other NFs due to lack of associated heat. Although, heat and straightforwardness are not to be confused. If I say things directly while there is little emotion attached to them, I too consider myself ahead of the game versus ending up having to express what are now full blown conflict associated emotions (yuck).

    And, if the person does it again, I tell them again (same as before) but with one thing added, my previous talk as an example that we've already revisited this issue (just to remind them).

    And, then, finally, if they STILL do it again.....it shows me how much respect that person gives my words (and my words - as a representation of my ideas are very very important to me, and near and dear to me). So, after this warning, if it happens again, I just don't even bother and they're weeded out.
    Fair enough.


    Scenario 2:



    If I see my part to play in it, in any significant way, it's kinda irrelevant, from MY perspective what the other's role is, but, more about addressing my part. Just like me, you have a mouth and a brain as well. What I did, you can do as well. And, if you don't, that means you didn't *get* it. It's kinda like 'giving an answer' rather than helping the other 'figure out the answer for themselves'. I don't think the former is in any way condusive nor effective. And, tying back to my previous comment, I have already tried to address X with you, calmly, a few times, casually, meaning that it's not like I haven't tried to direct you in figuring out the answer. So, if you still don't get it...it just says to me, you don't wanna get it.

    I detest repeating myself, nagging, or whining to another...and I will not direct your behaviour to owning your faults. I will be 100% receptive as you take the steps to WANT to acknowledge your faults, sort out the clouds, but, if you are completely unaware or unwilling to acknowledge your part....I'm not gonna spell it out for you. It's the price of adulthood. I won't think for anyone else. (I am very receptive if I see the person taking steps to want to acknowledge though, but if they don't and I know that in whatever way, my own faults are there, then I'll deal with my end of it and leave it at that...it's for MY personal growth, and clearing my own end of it, I'm only responsible for myself)

    And, finally, my motto in life: OWN IT! Own your own part in whatever "it" is. OWN IT. And, I expect that from the other as well, at least if the relationship has any semblance of respect from my end.

    * btw, it takes a lot, but, I do blow up, esp. in those immovable relationships where I can't just *walk* away...and those are just...bad. bad.

    (hope that wasn't too convoluted to follow and addressed some of what you were getting at? from this one entp's pov )
    Thanks that did help. I mulled over this today in trying to understand why I didn't agree. I'll try and articulate as best as I can. I think most of us mature, even slightly self aware individuals want to own our part. Most of us are eager to understand our parts and take care of things early because we all care about our relationships. This seems like a fair starting place for most people, in my opinion.

    Considering most people start out here, when they don't *get it*, it isn't necessary that they're not using their own heart and brain to figure it out but that they really do have a different view of the situation. Every situation is open to multiple interpretations, isn't it? At my end, I see NTs have a gift in a way that NFs do not. You can detach from the emotions much faster than I can to be able to look at the situation and see multiple sides to it. I can do this eventually but the detachment really takes some time. I'm quite keen though to see things from an NT perspective because I value it. In not sharing it, it seems like an unwillingness to work together to resolve the conflict. I understand the independence of thought and the idea of doing your own work. There's no substitute for it. At the same time, a lot of work I've done was done in time because an honest friend was able to point out my part earlier than I may have been able to do so myself. Even if I wasn't receptive at the time, I did listen and as I absorbed it, I learned from it and saw things from a completely different perspective - one I wasn't even vaguely aware of until it was presented to me. I hoard these rare people because of that rare gift and their generosity in sharing it.

    From the opposite side of the conflict, I'll present my view of ENTPs doing their owning in isolation. It's admirable because it's so sincere and so insightful where they are concerned. I really appreciate it. At the same time, they've often missed pieces that could have helped us both and the situation were they willing to engage in a conversation about it. The processing quietly is great but I don't just want to be presented with the results. I wish it was possible to understand the process by which you got there and see a willingness to talk about it. To me it comes across as doing a complete analysis of the situation which involves me without engaging me. Just seems strange. I wonder if it's possible to conduct a complete analysis without complete information from the other person. Do ENTPs not want the full picture?

    At the end of the day, it seems like a basic difference in how we view conflict resolution. ENTPs see it as a case of personal responsibility involving individual analysis and behavior change which can benefit both sides even if both do not have complete information. I see it as group work which is more painful but everyone benefits from having complete information and coming to an understanding of expectations at either end.

    My head resembles the inside of spaghetti squash today so I hope this made sense.

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