[INTP] The Official INTP Haters' Thread

[Standuble]

Ne is just an effeminate function. Jung himself called male ENTP's the most feminine of all types; I don't find it coincidental.

Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.

 

[Salomé]

Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.

Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.

 

[Standuble]

Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.

I appreciate the clarification.

 

[atreasuredembrace]

Ehhh does it really matter who's more feminine and masculine?

I mean you're always gonna have those masculine females and feminine males irl.

 

[WALMART]

Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.

I see the error of my ways. I meant most feminine of the T types. Fx is a stereotypical 'female' function, more so than Nx.

Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.

Even were there not, the conclusions can be drawn similarly.

Ehhh does it really matter who's more feminine and masculine?

I mean you're always gonna have those masculine females and feminine males irl.

What good is studying typology if I cannot culture an Us and Them mentality?

 

[EJCC]

I hope no other ESFJs have posted the same thing I'm posting but oh well...

Seriously, INTPs gotta know when to chill man. How come they get to complain about ESFJs so much when we irritate them and get all the support, but then when it's the other way around, we get no say. UGH... it's like do they really cherish the relationship/friendship at all? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but the INTP's shadow is a very bad ESFJ and an ESFJ's shadow is a negative INTP. ::sigh:: It's like, we can never give each other to understand each other's pain when really we have a lot more in common than what is visible O______O

It's like we can't accept our own shadows in real life /)___(\

If we just placed our egos aside and really humbled ourselves (You know, with INTP's need to always be right and ESFJ's need to always be on top and in control, whether right or wrong), I really think our relationships would be much better and would output a lot of growth on both ends.

Agreed!

I haven't seen much INTP shadow mode in the ESFJs I'm friends with, but I've had some experience with ESFJ shadow mode in INTPs, and it's a bitch to be around (as in the part of your post that I bolded). Completely out of nowhere, everything becomes a personal insult, everything becomes part of a conspiracy against them, everything becomes a sign that they are unloved and unappreciated -- and if you try to reason with them, they will assume that they know what you're going to say, and cut you off. Of all shadow modes that I've been around, I consider that one the hardest to deal with, and the most hurtful to people on the receiving end, because it's so personal.

(Edit: It's possible that it isn't quite so bad with other INTPs... and I really hope that's the case, because I haven't experienced anything milder.)

 

[Fluffywolf]

Agreed!

I haven't seen much INTP shadow mode in the ESFJs I'm friends with, but I've had some experience with ESFJ shadow mode in INTPs, and it's a bitch to be around (as in the part of your post that I bolded). Completely out of nowhere, everything becomes a personal insult, everything becomes part of a conspiracy against them, everything becomes a sign that they are unloved and unappreciated -- and if you try to reason with them, they will assume that they know what you're going to say, and cut you off. Of all shadow modes that I've been around, I consider that one the hardest to deal with, and the most hurtful to people on the receiving end, because it's so personal.

(Edit: It's possible that it isn't quite so bad with other INTPs... and I really hope that's the case, because I haven't experienced anything milder.)

I think the 'ESFJ shadow mode' is reserved for INTP's that deeply care about other peoples opinions.

I don't have it.

Or alternatively, it could more of an enneagram issue.

 

[Ism]

I think the 'ESFJ shadow mode' is reserved for INTP's that deeply care about other peoples opinions.

I don't have it.

Or alternatively, it could more of an enneagram issue.

Mm, I'm a little different. I know that I experience the behavior [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] describes in small bits and pieces. But I rarely, if ever, exhibit it. I know it's irrational, and when I'm upset, I mostly try and think of a solution rather than mope around... for too long.

Maybe it's an enneagram thing, maybe it's just a disposition thing. You don't seem to exhibit a lot of neurosis over all, must be nice.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=6643]Fluffywolf[/MENTION] and [MENTION=14676]Ism[/MENTION], it would make sense that, what with you guys being Nines, you'd be more self-aware and controlled about that shadow state. The INTP I was primarily drawing from, in my post, is likely a 5w6.

Also, good on you guys, for fighting that.

 

[Red Herring]

What would INTP shadow mode look like in an ESFJ though? Analysis paralysis?

I've been seriously wondering.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Mm, I'm a little different. I know that I experience the behavior @<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=4945" target="_blank">EJCC</a> describes in small bits and pieces. But I rarely, if ever, exhibit it. I know it's irrational, and when I'm upset, I mostly try and think of a solution rather than mope around... for too long.

Maybe it's an enneagram thing, maybe it's just a disposition thing. You don't seem to exhibit a lot of neurosis over all, must be nice.

Whenever I do (have some weird thought that doesn't make sense), I shoot it down immidiatly by firing it right back at myself.

Probably also why I I tend to make fun of myself a lot. I keep myself sane by exposing all insanity before it has the chance to bloom.



----
...Wait, waaaait, here it comes! This thought, it does not belong, initiate protocol mindkiller!

 

[Ism]

What would INTP shadow mode look like in an ESFJ though? Analysis paralysis?

I've been seriously wondering.

Well, defining shadow mode as your tert/inferior qualities lashing out works when an INTP having a hissy fit looks like he's misusing his Fe and Si. But do ESFJs really lash out or mope with Ti/Ne? For ESFJ shadow modes, the best I can think of is making some snide comment about someone's competency.

But that doesn't really hold much water, so it makes me think that the reaction EJCC describes is something isn't exclusive or particular to the INTP shadow mode. The paranoid, ego-centric 'everyone hates me' funk is something I've seen ESFJs get too. Then again, just because other types exhibit that kind of behavior doesn't mean it can't still be a part of the INTP's shadow mode.


But then I realize I don't actually know what 'shadow modes' entail.

This......... is a thing of beauty.

 

[Redbone]

What would INTP shadow mode look like in an ESFJ though? Analysis paralysis?

I've been seriously wondering.

Yeah somewhat. A kind of "I've got to find out the Truth!". Obsessively going to people asking their opinion, seeking advice from experts. May need help with complex issues, insist on tackling it themselves and refuse any help at all and then see their failure as proof that they are incompetent. Focus on irrelevant events to explain problems or issues...or what they imagine to be an issue. Become quick to criticize, cruel, and angry. Guilt trips. Fe turns inside out--used to create disharmony instead of harmony, drives others away and then this is taken as "proof" that people didn't care/like/love in the first place.

 

[EJCC]

Focus on irrelevant events to explain problems or issues...or what they imagine to be an issue. Become quick to criticize, cruel, and angry. Guilt trips. Fe turns inside out--used to create disharmony instead of harmony, drives others away and then this is taken as "proof" that people didn't care/like/love in the first place.

Oddly, I've seen this in the INTP I was referring to. It makes it hard to escape the guilt tripping, if you're the one they consider to be "at fault", or the one conspiring against them, because they've placed so goddamn much blame on you, not just for your actions, but for your feelings.

I'd like to think that most INTPs don't resort to accusing people of feeling the wrong thing, when they're upset. It sucks to be on the receiving end of that.

 

[Ism]

I'd like to think that most INTPs don't resort to accusing people of feeling the wrong thing, when they're upset. It sucks to be on the receiving end of that.

Not all of us are, I promise!

 

[Salomé]

But that doesn't really hold much water, so it makes me think that the reaction EJCC describes is something isn't exclusive or particular to the INTP shadow mode. The paranoid, ego-centric 'everyone hates me' funk is something I've seen ESFJs get too.

It isn't paranoia when it's true.

(Refers you to thread title)

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

I think the 'ESFJ shadow mode' is reserved for INTP's that deeply care about other peoples opinions.

I don't have it.

Or alternatively, it could more of an enneagram issue.

The more something is repressed, the more we "care deeply" about it, and it dominates our actions unconsciously (but everyone else sees it).

Probably, your Fe is quite developed, and this would be precisely why you don't care deeply about what other people think, because you can admit to yourself in the moment, that you do care a bit, and then, it's dealt with.

I used to deny to myself that I would care about someone's reaction, or even be genuinely unaware of it. I might be feeling bad and not even know why. This would lead to an explosion disguised as a defence of objectivity.

Now, I have a trick. I still naturally "scorn" other people reactions, but I notice, I don't feel better. So I learnt to consciously say to myself: "Il Morto Che Parla, you feel bad because of the way X reacted to you". Then I'll be like "yes, I do. that makes sense". Then I will be annoyed/sad for 5 minutes, and then happy again.

 

[Standuble]

I hate INTPs for the blatant absence of any criticism of me for necro'ing this long dead thread. Why are you standing there and letting me escape unscathed? Is it laziness? Pfff.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I hate INTPs for the blatant absence of any criticism of me for necro'ing this long dead thread. Why are you standing there and letting me escape unscathed? Is it laziness? Pfff.

INTP's don't mind being hated. It's the only form of attention that we can indulge in. If anything, we love you long time for the attention you give us!

 

[Standuble]

INTP's don't mind being hated. It's the only form of attention that we can indulge in. If anything, we love you long time for the attention you give us!

I see. Thank you. I was worried about the inner SFJ, the neat freak who would be upset that someone has just dug up a heavily decomposed (and very stinky) corpse and dumped it right in the middle of your nice clean rug, spoiling said rug and the scent in the room for weeks.