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  1. #321
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    What is PoLR - not "Proportional Odds Logistic Regression", I assume? Te is a particularly effective instrument, especially when working well in combination with other functions. What this means is its influence can be significant - for good or for ill.

    I don't hate INTPs as a rule either (my SO is one), but it is interesting to note what makes me dislike people of different types when I do dislike them. Do you find INTPs to be more sexist than other types?
    PoLR is the Point (or Path) of Least Resistance, and it is the most prominent blind-spot of a type, and can even characterize stereotypes.

    The Fe PoLR INxp (IxTJ) is often criticized (the PoLR always takes hits for being both a blind-spot and extremely weak) for seeming emotionless and uncaring on the surface, the Fi PoLR ExTp (ExTP) is often criticized for being without scruples and morals, the Se PoLR INxj (INxP) is often criticized for not being assertive and self-confident, not being able to defend one's own statements with force, etc.

    Of course, there is more to the PoLRs than stereotypes, but the stereotypes are usually manifested from it. The PoLR is such a blind-spot, that criticism to this area is utterly unexpected and rather harsh, and is often defined as being equivalent to "why are you criticizing me for that?". Supervisor types will sometimes drive the Supervisee type insane with the amount of PoLR hits they deliver to the supervisee (Supervisor type has the Supervisee's PoLR as the Lead Function), as in the ENFj-INTp intertype relation. The ENFj criticizes the INTp for not opening up emotionally and/or creating a socially comfortable environment, the INTp is taken aback, not realizing that Fe related tasks were important.

    And for a final visual representation of our specific Fe PoLR (the INTJ's Trickster Fe), here is this beautiful example.


    The interpretation of external emotional stimuli is a weak point for the IxTp (IxTJ), meaning that we don't always show that we our feelings to what is happening in the environment, making us seem cold and unemotional.

  2. #322
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Haha, no I've understood that it stands for "Point of Least Resistance", equivalent to Beebe's Trickster. But @Alea_iacta_est is more qualified to answer this. One of my current colleagues makes jokes a la the poster on a daily basis, but in a very innocent and funny way - he is one of the most caring and friendly person I can think of. He's also one of the persons that would respond to the question "do you love or hate women?" with a "yes", which is a hilarious joke re the logical OR definition. I wouldn't want to take that away from him, nor does any of my colleagues (both women and men)
    Are you suggesting that Te is evil (or perhaps simply most destructive) when in some shadow position like Beebe's trickster? It may be much less controlled due to un/subconscious use. This must be contrasted, however, with the harm that can be done by a conscious and proficient Te user who really does have evil intent (e.g. stereotypical INTJ movie villain).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Of course, there is more to the PoLRs than stereotypes, but the stereotypes are usually manifested from it. The PoLR is such a blind-spot, that criticism to this area is utterly unexpected and rather harsh, and is often defined as being equivalent to "why are you criticizing me for that?". Supervisor types will sometimes drive the Supervisee type insane with the amount of PoLR hits they deliver to the supervisee (Supervisor type has the Supervisee's PoLR as the Lead Function), as in the ENFj-INTp intertype relation. The ENFj criticizes the INTp for not opening up emotionally and/or creating a socially comfortable environment, the INTp is taken aback, not realizing that Fe related tasks were important.
    Interesting. Can you recommend any good references on this idea of PoLR and how it manifests in different types? I have definitely experienced the highlighted - in fact, all the time growing up. It always struck me exactly that way: "why do I have to worry about THAT?" It was just not on my radar at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    And for a final visual representation of our specific Fe PoLR (the INTJ's Trickster Fe), here is this beautiful example.


    The interpretation of external emotional stimuli is a weak point for the IxTp (IxTJ), meaning that we don't always show that we our feelings to what is happening in the environment, making us seem cold and unemotional.
    At the risk of illustrating your point, I must ask: what is the emotional stimulation in that video - the bits of paper flying around (there really isn't much else it can be . . .) ?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #323
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Are you suggesting that Te is evil (or perhaps simply most destructive) when in some shadow position like Beebe's trickster? It may be much less controlled due to un/subconscious use. This must be contrasted, however, with the harm that can be done by a conscious and proficient Te user who really does have evil intent (e.g. stereotypical INTJ movie villain).


    Interesting. Can you recommend any good references on this idea of PoLR and how it manifests in different types? I have definitely experienced the highlighted - in fact, all the time growing up. It always struck me exactly that way: "why do I have to worry about THAT?" It was just not on my radar at all.


    At the risk of illustrating your point, I must ask: what is the emotional stimulation in that video - the bits of paper flying around (there really isn't much else it can be . . .) ?
    You can find some PoLR descriptions on Wikisocion's page.

    The emotional stimulation is that the contestant won the contest which is obviously televised and he doesn't seem to care even with the extravaganza flying around him, though he is probably ecstatic internally (Fi > Fe). (lol at illustrating my point, don't worry, happens to me all the time, Fe PoLR problems)

    Also, the PoLR is often hated and despised, meaning that the INTp (INTJ) hates ebullient emotional expression for no practical purpose, and the INFp, like @Geonat stated, hates objective data that meddles with personal experience and the socially acceptable, as it is seen as cold and inhumane.

  4. #324
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Never had a problem with any INTPs in real life, but the Internet is full of INTP neckbeards that feel safe to air their idiotic opinions out behind the anonymity of a computer screen.

  5. #325
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    INTPs are grammar nazis, know-it-alls who generally have no sense of humour.

    A lot of them are also very politically correct, feminists and other nutcases...

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    [...]Te is a particularly effective instrument, especially when working well in combination with other functions. What this means is its influence can be significant - for good or for ill.
    This INFJ then, without any attempts at closing the thread, concludes with an Fe good parent (with a touch of Fi senex) that with high IQ comes great responsaliberty and that we depend on you high Te to do the right thing in a constructive and humane way in an attempt to minimise suffering of human and organic life should dire times surface. Sorry, but I have to stop here since there is a Miss World contest I have to prepare for.

    Edit: (since someone else already beat me at the eurovision song contest)

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    I've seen this attribute rationalized several different ways.

    Explanation, please.
    You just want me to look a fool.

    Okay, fourth Fe, let's see.... I think I heard it described best in a type book that referenced fourth Fe with a real life example of a brilliant, intelligent and successful man falling in love with a prostitute. She lied to him, took all of his money and continued his life style and the inferior Fe stricken fool was scammed to the grave. All of his friends warned him. He knew better and fell into a deep depression trying to solve the unsolvable problem of trying to get her to treat him well. .

    Fourth Fe is really a bizarre predicament, and you have to wonder it's purpose. I have read in several places that INTP females will burst out with inappropriate emotion and it frightens others as much as themselves. Yes, yes it is frightening. How it is frightening has a lot to do with nurture and value systems. Males are of course not exempt.

    INTP: Socially acceptable, uses charm and wit from Ne in a clever way to win people over. Popular and the smartest person in the room. Figures out personality types. Get irritated by someone disagreeing with them in a way they find really irrational /Hulk mode smash, will start screaming and yelling and turn bright red before realizing what is going on and calming down before they mess up the entire show they are putting on. Might punch someone. Alternatively they will start arguing in such an intense and over the top way that people will either be amazed and instantly submit or write them off as a crazy bat.

    INTP : Wears snowboots all year round with sweatpants. Writes interesting but also terribly personal fan-fiction. Falls deeply in love with a new girl every several months. Reads into relationship with girl way too much in their head. Girl gets scared and runs away. Fe time: Gets incredibly energized and writes a 12 page letter on a public form arguing why this girl should be in love with them, detailing the faults of all other suitors and previous lovers including a ton of personal information told in confidence. This includes reasons why any other sexual choices for him are inadequate, right down to the detail of the similarity she had to a character in a story he wrote. Logically speaking he is going to have to copulate eventually and he doesn't understand why it isn't with her. Even odder expects this letter actually to win this person back. Innovative detailing of house includes layering plastic and newspaper on the floor to make the entire home a litter box. Gets angry when the government logically doesn't let him and his family live how they want.

    INTP: At the border. Has very evolved thoughts on ethics and philosophy. Feels humans should be free and generally respect and love each other. Sees no need for any human being to control another. Cruelty is a horrifying notion. ESTJ border patrol, "WHY ARE YOU SMILING!!!" INTP: "Thats what you do when you greet someone!!!!" ESTJ: "No one smiles going through customs you are HIDING SOMETHING" INTP: Starts crying, thoughts racing, Life's unfair. I'm just trying to be a nice person. Realistically I shouldn't be here at all. There is like how many miles of land to go across and someone is going to shoot me if I don't let this asshole yell at me... meanwhile INTP is choking on their words while getting grilled with question after question they can't answer because they are choking on their own snot until they get locked into a room somewhere.

    Or just getting insanely offended or awkward and inappropriate times. It's like a switch and anything can trigger it. Then it's fireworks. The fireworks vary, but they are rarely enjoyable to those involved and often leaving others thinking the INTP is an idiot. Of course, this is the most painful thing in existence to someone who values logic and competency above all else. Uh oh, here it comes. Waterfall / anger burst / unstoppable energy torrent of verbal diarrhea.

    INTPS; pretty rad stuff but that fourth Fe man.... that fourth Fe!!!

  8. #328
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Yo intp's so dumb , I told them they lost their mind, and they started looking for it.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #329
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The emotional stimulation is that the contestant won the contest which is obviously televised and he doesn't seem to care even with the extravaganza flying around him, though he is probably ecstatic internally (Fi > Fe). (lol at illustrating my point, don't worry, happens to me all the time, Fe PoLR problems)

    Also, the PoLR is often hated and despised, meaning that the INTp (INTJ) hates ebullient emotional expression for no practical purpose, and the INFp, like @Geonat stated, hates objective data that meddles with personal experience and the socially acceptable, as it is seen as cold and inhumane.
    Ah - I figured it was some kind of contest, but didn't pick up that the fellow pictured had won.

    Thanks for the link. I know very little about socionics, and the whole arrangement of functions in that diagram is unfamiliar to me. It also seems different from Beebe. I identify with both the 4th and 5th position descriptions for Fe (4th corresponds to PoTR).
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #330
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geonat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    They can also be unreliable and forgetful.

    Then there's this:

    Sexism doesn't look good on any type, INTPs no exception.
    LOL. I actually know more than one INTP in real life who could very well crack a joke like that (including myself) and all of them are ardent defenders of the feminist cause. To me, this is not sexist, it is making fun of sexism. I have heard very politically correct liberal INTPs make jokes like that about women, gays, ethnic minorities, etc. hundreds of times and it was always to make fun of the stereotype/prejudice, not to enforce it.

    So yeah, as far as I can tell. The meme pic is correct - we make jokes that people often don't get and then even misinterpret and make them think we're assholes

    When I walk downtown with my fellow INTP SO he often makes comments that are the polar opposit of what he means and thinks and I look around and fear that someone overhearing him might misunderstand and break his nose
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