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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post



    Ne is just an effeminate function. Jung himself called male ENTP's the most feminine of all types; I don't find it coincidental.
    Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.

  2. #262
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.
    Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.
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  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.
    I appreciate the clarification.

  4. #264
    Junior Member atreasuredembrace's Avatar
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    Ehhh does it really matter who's more feminine and masculine?

    I mean you're always gonna have those masculine females and feminine males irl.
    Make it bold and beautiful.

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standuble View Post
    Is there a source for this? I've always believed that stereotypically F's are seen as more feminine with NFPs scoring higher than NTPs.

    I see the error of my ways. I meant most feminine of the T types. Fx is a stereotypical 'female' function, more so than Nx.


    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Of course there isn't. Jung didn't even recognise ENTPs as such.

    Even were there not, the conclusions can be drawn similarly.


    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    Ehhh does it really matter who's more feminine and masculine?

    I mean you're always gonna have those masculine females and feminine males irl.

    What good is studying typology if I cannot culture an Us and Them mentality?

  6. #266
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atreasuredembrace View Post
    I hope no other ESFJs have posted the same thing I'm posting but oh well...

    Seriously, INTPs gotta know when to chill man. How come they get to complain about ESFJs so much when we irritate them and get all the support, but then when it's the other way around, we get no say. UGH... it's like do they really cherish the relationship/friendship at all? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one but the INTP's shadow is a very bad ESFJ and an ESFJ's shadow is a negative INTP. ::sigh:: It's like, we can never give each other to understand each other's pain when really we have a lot more in common than what is visible O______O

    It's like we can't accept our own shadows in real life /)___(\

    If we just placed our egos aside and really humbled ourselves (You know, with INTP's need to always be right and ESFJ's need to always be on top and in control, whether right or wrong), I really think our relationships would be much better and would output a lot of growth on both ends.
    Agreed!

    I haven't seen much INTP shadow mode in the ESFJs I'm friends with, but I've had some experience with ESFJ shadow mode in INTPs, and it's a bitch to be around (as in the part of your post that I bolded). Completely out of nowhere, everything becomes a personal insult, everything becomes part of a conspiracy against them, everything becomes a sign that they are unloved and unappreciated -- and if you try to reason with them, they will assume that they know what you're going to say, and cut you off. Of all shadow modes that I've been around, I consider that one the hardest to deal with, and the most hurtful to people on the receiving end, because it's so personal.

    (Edit: It's possible that it isn't quite so bad with other INTPs... and I really hope that's the case, because I haven't experienced anything milder.)
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  7. #267
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Agreed!

    I haven't seen much INTP shadow mode in the ESFJs I'm friends with, but I've had some experience with ESFJ shadow mode in INTPs, and it's a bitch to be around (as in the part of your post that I bolded). Completely out of nowhere, everything becomes a personal insult, everything becomes part of a conspiracy against them, everything becomes a sign that they are unloved and unappreciated -- and if you try to reason with them, they will assume that they know what you're going to say, and cut you off. Of all shadow modes that I've been around, I consider that one the hardest to deal with, and the most hurtful to people on the receiving end, because it's so personal.

    (Edit: It's possible that it isn't quite so bad with other INTPs... and I really hope that's the case, because I haven't experienced anything milder.)
    I think the 'ESFJ shadow mode' is reserved for INTP's that deeply care about other peoples opinions.

    I don't have it. :P

    Or alternatively, it could more of an enneagram issue.
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  8. #268
    Senior Member Ism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    I think the 'ESFJ shadow mode' is reserved for INTP's that deeply care about other peoples opinions.

    I don't have it. :P

    Or alternatively, it could more of an enneagram issue.
    Mm, I'm a little different. I know that I experience the behavior @EJCC describes in small bits and pieces. But I rarely, if ever, exhibit it. I know it's irrational, and when I'm upset, I mostly try and think of a solution rather than mope around... for too long.

    Maybe it's an enneagram thing, maybe it's just a disposition thing. You don't seem to exhibit a lot of neurosis over all, must be nice.

  9. #269
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    @Fluffywolf and @Ism, it would make sense that, what with you guys being Nines, you'd be more self-aware and controlled about that shadow state. The INTP I was primarily drawing from, in my post, is likely a 5w6.

    Also, good on you guys, for fighting that.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #270
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    What would INTP shadow mode look like in an ESFJ though? Analysis paralysis?

    I've been seriously wondering.
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