User Tag List

First 5678 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 78

  1. #61
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    I am certainly a feminist. Of course, everyone basically defines their own meaning of the term whenever they use it. For instance, I say that I'm a feminist, but I don't buy into much of black feminist thought (a la Audre Lorde) or a lot of standpoint theory (a la Sandra Harding or Luce Irigaray). Similar to what ajblaise said, many feminisms are closely tied to other ideologies or social movements, such as Marxism (in the real sense of the term, not it's renewed political use), Afrocentrism, or different postmodern linguistic theories.

    I simply say that I am a feminist in the general sense, meaning that I identify with the motivation behind all of these theoretical formulations. That is to say, I identify with an overarching experience of women that seems to make them conscious of systemic oppression, even granting the huge differences between the individual experiences of women. The conceptualization of that oppression (in terms of its mechanisms and its values), or the proper action to take against it, is pretty much constantly contested territory, so it would be hard for me to adopt a hardline position on any one of them.

    And I agree with Ivy. Turning the word "feminism" into something of a taboo is, at least as I see it, a strategic rhetorical move to quell resistance. I'll stop now, though, because I'm probably making myself sound more radical than I actually am. You wouldn't believe it, but in my grad program, I'm actually among the more conservative of the lot in this regard.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  2. #62
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    I was tinking about this thread yesterday, as I said previously I'm definately a post feminist. I actually think men are getting a poor wrap. It's my belief that equality = equal not one has preference over another.

    Anyways, about 10 years ago I started working for the research agency, where according to their HR mannual - women could have paid time off for cancer screening.

    I'm an ex-nurse, so I called up HR and complained about the lack of equality, pointing out that more men die of gender specific cancers these days than women. Ought they not to change their policy? They didn't really come up wiht an answer, still bugs me even now

    Lis

  3. #63
    meh Salomé's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    I was tinking about this thread yesterday, as I said previously I'm definately a post feminist. I actually think men are getting a poor wrap. It's my belief that equality = equal not one has preference over another.

    Anyways, about 10 years ago I started working for the research agency, where according to their HR mannual - women could have paid time off for cancer screening.

    I'm an ex-nurse, so I called up HR and complained about the lack of equality, pointing out that more men die of gender specific cancers these days than women. Ought they not to change their policy? They didn't really come up wiht an answer, still bugs me even now

    Lis
    Yeah, totally agree. And they're like, only 50% of the population right? And they really can't look out for themselves, seeing as they have no authority or influence in the post-feminist world, so we should totally be in their corner fighting their battles for them.
    Quality wraps for men!

    Orangey: Excellent post, as ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    What for? The roster for your topless mud wrasslin' extravaganza? I'm in!
    *writes down "Kangirl"*

    *writes down "Peanut Butter"*

  5. #65
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    And they really can't look out for themselves......................
    Quality wraps for men!
    Ah sweetie, I'm as stubborn as ever.....

    In equality for anyone is just wrong... I'm not feminist because in the main we have equality, I know this has not always been the case, but I've never felt unequal treated at work.

    I was invited on a consultation group aimed at women in management, trying to sort out an area of business to make it more attractive for women to go work there. It very quickly became apparant, that this was a depresed area of the business and ultimately it needed to be perked up irrespective of genders. The team working on it went back to our chairman with a very different message than they expected.

    Men are piss poor are looking after their health, in the same way as women were in the 1950's so yes they need all the encouragement they can get....

    Lis

  6. #66
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6
    Posts
    24,060

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Ah sweetie, I'm as stubborn as ever.....

    In equality for anyone is just wrong... I'm not feminist because in the main we have equality, I know this has not always been the case, but I've never felt unequal treated at work.

    I was invited on a consultation group aimed at women in management, trying to sort out an area of business to make it more attractive for women to go work there. It very quickly became apparant, that this was a depresed area of the business and ultimately it needed to be perked up irrespective of genders. The team working on it went back to our chairman with a very different message than they expected.

    Men are piss poor are looking after their health, in the same way as women were in the 1950's so yes they need all the encouragement they can get....

    Lis
    This is a very developed-nation-centric attitude. Many undeveloped and developing nations are still pretty horrifying places for women. I don't totally agree that we've won the fight in the developed world, but at least it's better. At least we can work and won't be killed for having sex out of marriage or wanting to marry who we want. And our clitorises don't get cut off.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  7. #67
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    This is a very developed-nation-centric attitude. Many undeveloped and developing nations are still pretty horrifying places for women. I don't totally agree that we've won the fight in the developed world, but at least it's better. At least we can work and won't be killed for having sex out of marriage or wanting to marry who we want. And our clitorises don't get cut off.
    Hi

    Totally fair point on a global level, although I don't tend to get involved actively in global politics/activites. I've long since opted to change the world from a more localised perspective. If you can help to change what you truely have influence over.

    To be frank the only time I've written to my MP, prime minister etc, was about camp x ray's breaking of the geneva convention - which totally appauled that the UK had any hand in at all even vacariously.... Wont get on my soap box on that as it's totally off topic.

    Lis

  8. #68
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    Anyways, about 10 years ago I started working for the research agency, where according to their HR mannual - women could have paid time off for cancer screening.

    I'm an ex-nurse, so I called up HR and complained about the lack of equality, pointing out that more men die of gender specific cancers these days than women. Ought they not to change their policy? They didn't really come up wiht an answer, still bugs me even now
    I'd be surprised if this policy is still in place. Seems kind of blatantly unfair. All it would take is a couple of people seriously questioning it and the company in question would have to have a rethink. No? Also, it isn't the state's job to babysit citizens (well, it shouldn't be) - if men for whatever reason are reluctant to go to the doctor that's their business.

    I also just want to say that my opinions in this thread have been in regards to first-world feminism. I'm well aware of the f*cked up policies towards women in many other countries, and I agree that they're f*cked.

    Turning the word "feminism" into something of a taboo is, at least as I see it, a strategic rhetorical move to quell resistance.
    In many ways I think it's been (certain factions of) feminism itself that's made the word, in some quarters, taboo.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  9. #69
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    ESTP
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Socionics
    SLE
    Posts
    6,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    In many ways I think it's been (certain factions of) feminism itself that's made the word, in some quarters, taboo.
    I don't think so. In any group (such as, say, "conservatives" or "liberals") there will be dissonance of opinion and the occasional person or group of persons that says something outlandish. To turn the word that identifies the group into something of a taboo is to strategically use these instances (instances of, say, Andrea Dworkin saying that all penetration is rape, for instance) to condemn the motivation behind the entire group. That oh, some crazy feminist somewhere said something really stupid (though depending on who perceives this, it may or may not be justified), therefore feminism is fucked.

    In politics, we usually recognize this strategy and call it for what it is. Like when Ann Coulter goes on television and says something really stupid, we know that using her as the target to blanket condemn conservatism (and refuse to call oneself "conservative" as a result) is fallacious. The fact that this is often not recognized in the case of feminism, I think, speaks volumes about the status of women and women's issues in the "first world".

    So basically what I'm saying is that if you reject the feminist label, it is for one of two reasons; either (1) you really do disagree with ALL forms of feminism on an ideological level (which of course requires that you have some idea of what these feminisms are), or (2) that you are uneasy about adopting the label because of the fallacious image that gets conjured by media and popular opinion.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  10. #70
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    So basically what I'm saying is that if you reject the feminist label, it is for one of two reasons; either (1) you really do disagree with ALL forms of feminism on an ideological level (which of course requires that you have some idea of what these feminisms are), or (2) that you are uneasy about adopting the label because of the fallacious image that gets conjured by media and popular opinion.
    It's number 2, I think, with an added part: I don't buy that it is a *completely* fallacious image. Regarding number 1, there are a few factions of feminism I do simply disagree with on an ideological level.

    The person who asked the "are you a feminist" question should have given a specific definition of what they meant by 'feminism' - it's almost impossible to have a discussion about it these days because it seems there are so many different definitions of the word - negative, positive and neutral.

    I'm aware of most of feminist history and literature (and have read the major writers), have taken women's studies course (never again!) early on during my undergrad degree and my opinion is based on what I've read/thought. A lot of the people I know who would describe themselves as mainstream feminists believe in things I do not believe in - 'the patriarchy' being a good example of this. Is believing in the a patriarchy something that you consider outside of the mainstream?

    I mean, in your opinion, you tell me - can I rationally consider myself a feminist without believing in a patriarchy*? That's part of why I hem and haw when asked - I've been told a number of times that that specific belief of mine negates the possibility of my being a feminist. However, I do believe in equal opportunity for all people, regardless of sex, race etc. It's not disingenuous confusion on my part. I really don't know.

    *again, talking about first world feminism here
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

Similar Threads

  1. [INTP] Questions for INTP Women
    By Redbud in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 05-20-2012, 04:13 PM
  2. [NT] NT! Why are you ASSHOLES?
    By ThatGirl in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 210
    Last Post: 06-29-2009, 09:32 PM
  3. [NT] NTs . . . Why are You Messy?
    By Haight in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 112
    Last Post: 06-23-2009, 12:24 PM
  4. [NT] NT, How Are You NOT Like Your Type Description?
    By SquirrelTao in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 78
    Last Post: 09-27-2008, 05:05 PM
  5. [NT] Question for NTs...
    By The Ü™ in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-23-2008, 07:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO