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  1. #41
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    So racism is okay, but having a differing view of how to act respectfully towards women is not?

    I feel very awkward hugging men. Am I being disrespectful towards men, for not hugging them as I would like to hug a female?
    1) The Jew thing was obviously a satirical J-O-K-E.

    2) No, because it is not in a professional context. That is in a personal context. If your job required that you hug people when you meet them, I think you would have grounds for quitting.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    1) The Jew thing was obviously a satirical J-O-K-E.
    Of which is solely based on his race, thus being racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    2) No, because it is not in a professional context. That is in a personal context. If your job required that you hug people when you meet them, I think you would have grounds for quitting.
    And your job requires people to shake hands with each others?

    Granted, I'm not saying he wasn't being a jerk for not trying to adjust himself with local habits, but being a jerk in return won't make it any better.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Of which is solely based on his race, thus being racist.

    And your job requires people to shake hands with each others?
    1) Satire plays for irony. The irony of the racism is the foundation of the joke (also Jewishness is NOT a race, I am Chinese and my best friend is apparently Jewish).

    2) Most jobs do require handshakes as a form of courtesy upon introduction, and mine does. Alternatively, I could kiss them on the lips with a little bit of tongue and a butt-squeeze. It's a personal choice.

    Edited to add: I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain the joke when it's so obviously a joke.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    1) Satire plays for irony. The irony of the racism is the foundation of the joke (also Jewishness is NOT a race, I am Chinese and my best friend is apparently Jewish).
    I admit I'm guilty of doing that kind of jokes all the time. So I understand what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    2) Most jobs do require handshakes as a form of courtesy upon introduction, and mine does. Alternatively, I could kiss them on the lips with a little bit of tongue and a butt-squeeze. It's a personal choice.

    Edited to add: I don't even know why I'm bothering to explain the joke when it's so obviously a joke.
    Well, I have never saw a contract which explicitly demands colleagues to shake hands when introduced. It's a common courtesy in your culture, but not in his. He was trying to be courteous the way he thought would be the best, in this situation, respecting your zone of physical privacy.

    All I'm trying to say here is that having a look from a reversed angle can explain a lot about other persons. Objectivity is a myth, there is no such thing.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Well, I have never saw a contract which explicitly demands colleagues to shake hands when introduced. It's a common courtesy in your culture, but not in his. He was trying to be courteous the way he thought would be the best, in this situation, respecting your zone of physical privacy.

    All I'm trying to say here is that having a look from a reversed angle can explain a lot about other persons. Objectivity is a myth, there is no such thing.
    It's not common courtesy in my culture, which is Chinese. It is something that I adopted when I moved to Australia out of courtesy. Respecting the customs of the foreign nation that I'm in (e.g. taking my shoes off when I enter a mosque in Istanbul) is courtesy. Refusing to take off my shoes because I'm a taoist and don't believe in Islam is not. For the record, I'm not taoist or Buddhist. I'm just stating an example.

    Courtesy and manners is being mindful of cultural norms and adjusting yourself to them even if they don't fit with what you're used to or what you believe in. This man was rude and sexist, cultural beliefs notwithstanding. Fact.

    Edited to add: This has also gone too far off topic... So we should move back to NT women and their beliefs about feminism.

  6. #46
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    I've noticed many of my NT female friends are self-proclaimed feminists. Just wondering if NT women are any more likely than women of other temperaments to be feminists or if it is just a trend amongst those I am familiar with.

    Excuse me if this topic has been discussed before.
    I'm not a feminist because feminism on the surface looks sensible enough but when I saw the details I found it distasteful.

    Equal pay for equal work is the only thing I believe in.

  7. #47
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    When did feminism become such a dirty dirty word? It's about equality. I wish I could say "D'uh, I'm a woman, of course I want to be recognized as a full human being and not chattle" but there are women out there who mysteriously don't.

    These are usually the same women who say things like "I don't see gender differences, I can have the same job, blah blah blah." and forget that they are part of the very very lucky 10% of women in the world who have these luxuries. But no, stay safe in your little bubble of ignorance, all the shallow insecure men won't like you if you care about being an equal.

    Education, land ownership, health education, social status = The things you take for granted.
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  8. #48
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    The thing about feminism is that it's a part of leftism, sometimes far leftism. So on top of the negative connotations, there is the heavy association with left politics so any NT women who is a moderate or right-of-center might see a conflict before them, even if they agree with most feminist goals and achievements.

    That is the reason why you won't see booyalab in this thread talking about how great the right to vote is...

  9. #49
    Senior Member edel weiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovejet02 View Post
    Is this your personal experience? Just curious. As for mine, my mom always tells my dad what to do. Ha
    No, not by personal experience. I'm lucky enough to live in an egalitarian family. But I've regularly seen other families where some form of this kind of sexism does take place.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    I'm not going to extrapolate his jerkish behavior to something that may or may not have happened in his life. He was in Australia, a foreign country. He was there on a professional purpose. He should've adjusted, or at least made an effort.

    Yes, his possible history cannot justify his behaviour, and he should definitely make an effort to adjust. Just that if you look at it in context, you could understand his behaviour while still not accepting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    I'm not a feminist because feminism on the surface looks sensible enough but when I saw the details I found it distasteful.

    Equal pay for equal work is the only thing I believe in.

    What details did you find distasteful?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by edel weiss View Post
    Yes, his possible history cannot justify his behaviour, and he should definitely make an effort to adjust. Just that if you look at it in context, you could understand his behaviour while still not accepting it.
    What made you think that I didn't understand his behavior? It's not difficult to figure out. I'm just not empathetic and don't believe in making excuses for him. I grew up around enough Chinese misogynistic bastards to understand them and simultaneously deem them irrelevant (which is exactly how I reacted to that Israeli guy).

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