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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default The Benefit of Ethical Autodidactism

    What I mean is that teaching oneself a code of ethics can often be more beneficial than listening to a wise old sage.

    This is because I believe we can learn more in observing ourselves and deducing principles from our thoughts and actions than we can in listening to the teachings of others. I'm not sure if this is related to being an NT, although as a side point, I read in Please Understand Me II that NTs have a tendency to think they should be able to master something easily and feel frustrated if they don't master the technique, whereas SPs recognise that technique and mastery comes with practice. In this respect, I'm more open to the concept of my being able to master myself independently rather than have others teach me to master myself. I don't know, these could be two different points, but I think they're both interesting.

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    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    What I mean is that teaching oneself a code of ethics can often be more beneficial than listening to a wise old sage.

    This is because I believe we can learn more in observing ourselves and deducing principles from our thoughts and actions than we can in listening to the teachings of others. I'm not sure if this is related to being an NT, although as a side point, I read in Please Understand Me II that NTs have a tendency to think they should be able to master something easily and feel frustrated if they don't master the technique, whereas SPs recognise that technique and mastery comes with practice. In this respect, I'm more open to the concept of my being able to master myself independently rather than have others teach me to master myself. I don't know, these could be two different points, but I think they're both interesting.
    Outstanding thread. You see, this thread is very un-narcasistic. internal development of a code of ethics is surely better than the status quo. ("It's best not to drink and drive because you will be adjusted by the law."-INCORRECT)....("It's best not to drink and drive because of the reason behind the law."-CORRECT)
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

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    Self sustaining supernova Zoom's Avatar
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    Not to dismiss what ye are saying, but it seems natural to me that someone who is self-aware will apply those ethics or personal codes of conduct that feel right and logical to him/her, and discard the miscellaneous trappings that society and others tend to pin on one's self.

    I agree with the reasoning and thoughtful consideration vs. apathetic or blind following of the rules.

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    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentium View Post
    Not to dismiss what ye are saying, but it seems natural to me that someone who is self-aware will apply those ethics or personal codes of conduct that feel right and logical to him/her, and discard the miscellaneous trappings that society and others tend to pin on one's self.

    I agree with the reasoning and thoughtful consideration vs. apathetic or blind following of the rules.
    I wouldn't say that was dismissive at all. It's actually a very fair point.

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    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I agree with Silentim.

    I don't know if I like the idea of ethical autodidactism too much. I think ethics is all about others, so paying some (doesn't mean it has to be a lot) importance to what the wise old sage says is important. I guess what I'm saying is that a possible fallpit of ethical autodidcatism is losing touch with reality and being close-minded. Which are both traits that could be attributed to several crazy tyrants throughout history.

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    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Sounds related to Kohlberg's stages of moral evelopment. Especially the post-conventional stage:

    The post-conventional level, also known as the principled level, consists of stages five and six of moral development. There is a growing realization that individuals are separate entities from society, and that the individual's own perspective should have precedence over society's view. Because of this level's "nature of self before others", the behavior of post-conventional individuals, especially those at stage 6, can be confused with that of those at the pre-conventional level.[7][8][9]

    In Stage five (social contract driven), individuals are viewed as holding different opinions and values. Similarly, laws are regarded as social contracts rather than rigid dictums. Those which do not promote the general welfare should be changed when necessary to meet "the greatest good for the greatest number of people".[8] This is achieved through majority decision, and inevitable compromise. Thus democratic government is ostensibly based on stage five reasoning.

    In Stage six (universal ethical principles driven), moral reasoning is based on abstract reasoning using universal ethical principles. Laws are valid only insofar as they are grounded in justice, and a commitment to justice carries with it an obligation to disobey unjust laws. Rights are unnecessary, as social contracts are not essential for deontic moral action. Decisions are not reached hypothetically in a conditional way but rather categorically in an absolute way, as in the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.[15] This involves an individual imagining what they would do in another's shoes, if they believed what that other person imagines to be true.[16] The resulting consensus is the action taken. In this way action is never a means but always an end in itself; the individual acts because it is right, and not because it is instrumental, expected, legal, or previously agreed upon. Although Kohlberg insisted that stage six exists, he found it difficult to identify individuals who consistently operated at that level.[12]
    "All humour has a foundation of truth."
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    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    I don't know if I like the idea of ethical autodidactism too much. I think ethics is all about others, so paying some (doesn't mean it has to be a lot) importance to what the wise old sage says is important. I guess what I'm saying is that a possible fallpit of ethical autodidcatism is losing touch with reality and being close-minded. Which are both traits that could be attributed to several crazy tyrants throughout history.
    Of course, that is a flaw in this idea. Nonetheless, I'm sure there are examples of people who have managed to overcome this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Sounds related to Kohlberg's stages of moral evelopment. Especially the post-conventional stage:
    Interesting.

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