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  1. #31
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    Well I have some ESTJ friends and a previous ESTJ boss.
    For most SJ just do what they say. lol and record it; you need a paper trail
    cause they might not want to take blame when things go wrong.

    Or they say you misheard them.

    Oddly, if you were going to get your subordinates to go against him, look for the ESTJ or ISTJ. Then look for the NF then go to NT.

    For what every reason NT always seem to be the last on the bandwagon, but SJ will be the first if they think the person is being out of order or breaking social normals.

    ESTJ turn that way when they are in power, it gets to their head. So, as your collegue they will be good to make friends with but not your boss.

    (Something about ranking, an as NT we tend to see everybody being equal)

  2. #32
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    As a general rule ESTJ and even most ISTJ are easy to control.

    Congitive Dissonance normally works well on them.


    Also, you can use their competitive nature against them.

  3. #33
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    those opportunities you have had to challenge is ideas? use them...but be passive aggressive so he doesn't see you as a direct threat.

    start with "That sounds like a good idea but..." and then end with..."We could still do that, but this way its so much easier...what should i do?"

    "That would only work if X was not there. Since X is there, its probably not safe to go there...how bout bringing in A to minimize the X factor?"

    also, its prolly a good idea to do this in public

  4. #34
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    He is your superior isn't he? But clearly your high up enough to have alot of freedom so you could get away with by passing him in the pecking order.
    Use your ENTP skills and beat him at his own game by getting in with the people above him (if you can) and cutting him out the lope as much as possible. Take your ideas to the guy above him.
    You could also turn your collegues against him by pushing the boundries enough for you to look reasonable but for him to over react and set it up untill its in front of lots of other people.
    This has worked with me in the past. It's a good practice anyway. Be friends with as many people and go as high as you can. Even if you're not strictly friends with the higher ups, people will think twice before fucking with you. Social isolation is death.

    Quote Originally Posted by chegra View Post
    Congitive Dissonance normally works well on them.

    Also, you can use their competitive nature against them.
    ESTJ often feel stupid, so if you can explain things and confuse them they will usually retreat.

    Quote Originally Posted by thisGuy View Post
    those opportunities you have had to challenge is ideas? use them...but be passive aggressive so he doesn't see you as a direct threat.

    start with "That sounds like a good idea but..." and then end with..."We could still do that, but this way its so much easier...what should i do?"

    "That would only work if X was not there. Since X is there, its probably not safe to go there...how bout bringing in A to minimize the X factor?"

    also, its prolly a good idea to do this in public
    Passive aggressive works with them, too. Too direct and you risk conflict with the corporate structure.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #35
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    I normally dislike passive-aggression, but if you have an ESTJ to destroy then malicious compliance is the quickest, most efficient way of doing that.

    Me: This plan is going to have some very severe long-term consequences, we can't just focus on rampant, short-term...
    Boss: [buzzwords, slogans]
    Me: ...
    Me: Hey, you're the boss!

    Help the process fail. Watch the boss go down in flames. This is why, whenever I have a boss who loves me leave, I get a letter of recommendation from that boss in case I need to immolate the new one. New bosses are a crapshoot.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  6. #36
    Senior Member Aleph-One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chegra View Post
    For what every reason NT always seem to be the last on the bandwagon
    They do seem to be the last on the bandwagon, but the NTs are the first ones to have their toes stepped on by a short-sighted despot. They seem to be the last on the bandwagon because bandwagons are highly visible to everyone, and they don't want to take the collective fall if the mob tactic fails. At least, that's what goes on in my head. I might agree with everyone who complains about management, but will never vocalize it for reasons of self-preservation. Instead, I usually start pulling some cloak and dagger shit right after the boss decides to ignore my objections and leave early so he can get a table at PF Chang's with the other career-building mercenaries for lunch.
    Aleph-One, you look like the kind of person who would spend his spare time building a giant robot to hold the government for ransom. -Some Guy on the Internet

  7. #37
    Junior Member livinglife's Avatar
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    Default How did it all turn out?

    Hi I'm an INTP female with an older ESTJ brother who seems to think he's my boss, so I have great sympathy with the OP. I've had major difficulty with my brother, and since we share (from different locales) the caretaking of a parent, our relationship such that it is, is an issue. Anyway, I found this thread quite helpful to my situation, and am hoping it helped the OP. I really hope you are working in a wonderful, creative environment where your work is appreciated and you feel personally and financially rewarded.

  8. #38
    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    I worked for a woman that started off the same way and I have determined that she was an ESTJ as well. She was jealous of my talent and where that would take me. But, I did handle it differently than you...I respected her position, found good qualities to focus on in her and acknowledged them as they were genuine. When she saw I was competent and didn't seek her position she stopped seeing me as a threat and I was given complete freedom to do what I wanted to do while everyone else was under her thumb for every little thing daily.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Kristiana's Avatar
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    ESTJs at work should be banned.
    j'adore les chats

  10. #40
    Senior Member FC3S's Avatar
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    ENTP - The weakness of an ESTJ, they hate being annoyed. They hate disagreements. They are powerless to majority opinion. To be called an idiot will charge them. Don't bother using your debating skillz, they won't work. Insult them first - let them blow up - then tell them succinctly why they are wrong - you guys are good at this. You are their kryptonite.

    You guys are hyenas, go in for the kill, make it swift and retreat. Your ESTJ overlord will rise from the dead. Lather, rinse, repeat. You will wear him down. Be warned, he will rise again for another day.

    Good luck.
    ESTP - Definition: "Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target a 120 km away, with an aratech sniper rifle and tri-light scope.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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