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  1. #91
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    With all due respect, I did specifically mention that it's ENTJs who are not well rounded, and don't have a softer side (i.e skills with people), who do this sort of thing. The better ones recognize that they have a joint responsibility, even if they feel personally frustrated that they can't do everything they want. With the non-well-rounded ones, it's all Te. All goal; all the time. Nothing else matters.

    I don't think it helps anyone to be politically correct and say everyone of every type is equally good. They aren't. Poorly developed people of all types frequently have issues. But an unhealthy INFP is likely only going to hurt themselves and the people they are close to.

    With an ENTJ who has issues, that's going to affect a lot of people when they are in charge. I've seen people who have been hurt by these guys. Hurt badly. And some of them will look for companies where there are more sensitive or vulnerable people, like at a design firm, an animation studio, or a not-for-profit, because they know those people won't stand up for themselves and they can unleash their reign of terror unchecked. I'm speaking from experience here. This stuff is for real, not just yap on a forum. The key is to be properly informed, so you when you recognize this type of behavior in a boss, you won't be sucked in, and can make plans to gain employment elsewhere.
    With all due respect, there is no set "standard" for what is, and what is not, healthy.
    In this forum, it's getting pretty old reading "Oh that's an unhealthy XXXX!"
    Your alleged disclaimer was nothing more than a slick way of covering your ass before throwing in your stink bomb.

    "But, but, but, I said if they weren't well-rounded!"

    Come on, does that innocent act work on your parents?

  2. #92
    Member Sidewinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    With all due respect, there is no set "standard" for what is, and what is not, healthy.
    In this forum, it's getting pretty old reading "Oh that's an unhealthy XXXX!"
    Your alleged disclaimer was nothing more than a slick way of covering your ass before throwing in your stink bomb.

    "But, but, but, I said if they weren't well-rounded!"

    Come on, does that innocent act work on your parents?
    Good point. I do see and understand that.

    Okay. Let me put it this way ... I think ENTJs may vary more in quality than most other types. Te is a very powerful quality. It's very forceful, it's very blunt, it's very results-driven. There may be more temptation for someone who is Te-dominate to overuse it, perhaps to the exclusion of anything else. Blunt force and bullying can get remarkable results ... you often can push good employees around and get remarkable results by riding unrefined Te a long way. With a lot of companies, this type of behavior is overlooked if the sales and product is good and everything's running all right. The stockholders, after all, are happy. Below the surface, problems are bubbling. Eventually, this dictator is found out, but not before a lot of damage is done.

    Many ENTJs will realize that keeping people happy is important, and you can't just push people around. These are the types that have/will develop a feeling side, an intutitive side, a sensing side, etc. And these guys can become visionary leaders who are among the best CEOs around. Look, not all ENTJs are bad. I wasn't just covering my ass. My current director is a great ENTJ, and I'm still there.

    On the other hand, an INFP probably needs to develop something other than Fi to get through life. They can't get stuck as easily. And an ESTJ, while they can also be blunt and overly-forceful, usually are more concerned with proper procedure and getting the job done right. They are also conscious of tradition and family-oriented, which usually means it's more likely they'll understand personal needs.

    I dunno ... what do we say about ENTJs who are ruthless and insensitive. They exist. Do we pretend they don't? Are we supposed to say no-one has ever been hurt by them? I do think it's valuable to talk about good and bad versions of a type (whether we say that's unhealthy, or well-rounded, or some other term). Why are we supposed to think everyone of the same type has the same strengths and weaknesses?
    Last edited by Sidewinder; 03-06-2010 at 05:39 PM. Reason: Unclear sentence

  3. #93
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
    I dunno ... what do we say about ENTJs who are ruthless and insensitive.
    I'd call them dumb fucks. But then I'm direct.

    I do think it's valuable to talk about good and bad versions of a type
    In theory, be my guest.

    But I contend that in practice, the majority of people are dead wrong about anyone's type.
    And for the record, the absolute worst thing you can do is type someone at work.
    Any decent typologist will tell you the exact same thing.
    How people are in the workplace, can be nearly opposite of their true inner self.

    So ask yourself this, do you want to type a person's mask- their public persona?
    Or do you want to type their inner self?
    I don't know about you but I want to know a person on the INSIDE.

    That's the pot of gold.

  4. #94
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    My dad is an ENTJ. I think he's awesome.

    I like the fact that he's responsible, super-efficient, organized, and doesn't hesitate to take control of things that are important. I also like the fact that he's blatant. Some people find the whole blatantness thing intimidating, but I find it much more refreshing to have somebody tell me up-front what they're thinking rather than having to try to find out what they're implying.

    He's really funny; I love his sense of humor. He pokes fun a lot, and will find ways to press people's buttons, but he doesn't mean it in a hostile way; it's sort of like harmless banter. He can come off as intimidating and serious to some people, but when you earn his respect, he's pretty laid-back and humorous and such.

    I also like the fact that he has his exclusive sentimental moments with the family and I; it's nice to be able to know that out of all of the people he supposedly hates in the world, we're the exception and are worthy of being able to see that side of himself. I was over at my friend's house one time doing homework with her, and when I talked to my dad real quick on the phone, my friend overheard him call me "sweetie", crack jokes, and basically just talk in a very laid-back fashion, and since he has a more serious-nature around most other people, this surprised the heck out of her. As an ESFJ, she couldn't help but go "awwwWWWW! " :P

    Anywho, to sum it up, I wish I knew more ENTJs, because you guys are hella awesome!

  5. #95
    almost half a doctor phoenix13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    I also like the fact that he has his exclusive sentimental moments with the family and I; it's nice to be able to know that out of all of the people he supposedly hates in the world, we're the exception and are worthy of being able to see that side of himself.
    Oh, god yes! They've got this inner circle, and everyone outside of it is stupid and obnoxious. At best, they're in the way. ENTJs are true elitists.

    Those inside the circle are fortunate to bathe in the the ENTJ's affection, loyalty, empowerment, and general awesomeness.

    "OMG I FEEEEEEEEEL SO INTENSELY ABOUT EVERYTHING OMG OMG OMG GET ME A XANAX" -Priam (ENFP impersonation)

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eris View Post
    My dad is an ENTJ. I think he's awesome.

    I like the fact that he's responsible, super-efficient, organized, and doesn't hesitate to take control of things that are important. I also like the fact that he's blatant. Some people find the whole blatantness thing intimidating, but I find it much more refreshing to have somebody tell me up-front what they're thinking rather than having to try to find out what they're implying.

    He's really funny; I love his sense of humor. He pokes fun a lot, and will find ways to press people's buttons, but he doesn't mean it in a hostile way; it's sort of like harmless banter. He can come off as intimidating and serious to some people, but when you earn his respect, he's pretty laid-back and humorous and such.

    I also like the fact that he has his exclusive sentimental moments with the family and I; it's nice to be able to know that out of all of the people he supposedly hates in the world, we're the exception and are worthy of being able to see that side of himself. I was over at my friend's house one time doing homework with her, and when I talked to my dad real quick on the phone, my friend overheard him call me "sweetie", crack jokes, and basically just talk in a very laid-back fashion, and since he has a more serious-nature around most other people, this surprised the heck out of her. As an ESFJ, she couldn't help but go "awwwWWWW! " :P

    Anywho, to sum it up, I wish I knew more ENTJs, because you guys are hella awesome!
    We do have a soft underbelly .

    We just have to trust you before we let you see it.

  7. #97
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    I LOVE ENTJs. They are so awesome and blunt. They might be one of my favorite types.

  8. #98
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    Sidewinder...I see a big problem when someone wants to cast a judgement based on type. Let me guess, since I'm an ENTJ, you'd expect me to act the way you describe, you'd have your guard up, correct? I think what Jaguar was getting at is this is basically a form of descrimination. I don't act the ways you describe. I would find it completely unprincipled to do so. You're taking situations you've been in and making situational judgements then making a false generalization which entials a steroetype which I find terrible! If you want to judge me, you better wait until you know something about me as an individual, then if you have a problem with me, with me, you feel free to let me know. Until then, the comments you are making have nothing to do with me, even though I'm an ENTJ.

  9. #99
    Twerking & Lurking ayoitsStepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    We do have a soft underbelly .

    We just have to trust you before we let you see it.
    Just give me an onion, scissors and a rock and I bet I could worm my way in .
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    ayoitsStepho is becoming someone else. Actually her true self, a rite of passage.

  10. #100
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Again?
    I'm wondering what would happen to a "hate ENTP" thread. Probably everybody would reassure us that they love us, instead of answering the question.

    Back to topic... in my very small knowledge, there exist three sorts of ENTJs: the overconfident villain, the perfect hero, and my roleplay character who is probably almost a P.

    I don't know any real-life ENTJs. I wish I knew some. It would be very interesting to create an ENTJ hero who is not perfect... who also has the ENTJ impatience and bluntness
    I don't hate the type, but I don't love the type either... I just don't know them enough to care. Again, I wish I did.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

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