User Tag List

First 234

Results 31 to 38 of 38

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    at times I want to choke the living rainbow colored rays of sunshine that comes out of their day-dreamy face
    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    and they know this
    I never need to pretend to like someone. People know where they stand with me
    Oh, okay. That's good then. As long as you still get something good out of being friends with them...

  2. #32

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    Hypothetically?



    ENXJ has tertiary Se. For them to feel good and right they have to scan the environment they are in and freely and fully take action according to impulse. And for ENTJ, impulse is provided by Te/Ni together with some Fi background noise.

    Is there anything Fe can meaningfully interject in such a circumstance? Seriously? Fe is eighth in function order for an ENTJ. It's literally the last thing they listen to.

    Which doesn't mean they won't hear you. But it does mean your Fe program will find no particular satisfaction in ENTJ company, even if you do succeed in teaching him something about himself. You won't see it reflected back at you in the way you need most. In fact, you'll tend to see the opposite of what you need most. As will he.

    But he's got the tertiary Se. Your Inferior Se will be overrun and ground into the dirt. It's not what he'll want to do. It's just what will happen.
    This is obviously from a very long time ago, but reading it now has raised a question that has been bugging me for awhile now, and I figured this would be a good place to get some input.

    I'm having a really hard time understanding why there is such a disconnect between Fe and Te, especially when Te is used in conjunction with Ni. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding how the functions work, but in my mind it seems that if a person can learn and understand the basic principles of psychology and human development there's no reason why she or she couldn't use Te in a way that starts to look an awful lot like Fe.

    From my perspective, Fe works in two largely unconscious steps: first you identify the emotional climate (in either a group or an individual), then you take action designed to maximize positive feelings. Maybe I'm an atypical INFJ, but from my perspective making people happy and focusing on their feelings isn't just the end-goal. The ultimate goal is to keep things moving forward as efficiently as possible. From a purely utilitarian perspective, emotional discordance and conflict during the production process has a negative impact on the end result.

    That's why I'm always so baffled when people talk about INFJ as being irrational and dreamy. Fe is inherently pragmatic and is based on a rational understanding of human behavior. It may be more difficult for a Te user to grasp the principles of human behavior and may require the ability to juggle a lot more variables, but for the most part people tend to act in predictable patterns and once you have a basic understanding of what motivates an individual you can make a logical assumption about how they are likely to act and react in a given situation. Once you can learn to identify and manipulate that (and I don't mean manipulate in the nefarious sense) aren't you basically engaging in the same process?

    So what am I missing here? Why is there such a hard divide?

  4. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    INJF
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Eclare I totally agree with you. I'm an ENFJ but wouldn't say i'm whimsical I definitely understand people, there motives and what pleases them and there adjust my behavior to get the desirable outcome. I am hyper pragmatic and rational.

  5. #35
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ¥¤
    Enneagram
    3w4 sp/so
    Posts
    1,907

    Default

    You know, last week I would've jumped in and said "ENTJ + INFJ, 100%!!"

    But he's beginning to annoy me. He has no backbone at all in life, and relies on me for EVERYTHING, including emotional support. At first, I kind of enjoyed being a hero/catalyst for improvement in his life, but now it's getting ridiculous. He's not doing anything for himself and continues to cry to me.

    When I gently request that he not rely on me to solve his problems, he sulks about my "heartlessness".

    If he doesn't shape up within two weeks, I'm poised to drop him.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
    sp/so
    Lawful Evil

    COCKBURN:

    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  6. #36
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ¥¤
    Enneagram
    3w4 sp/so
    Posts
    1,907

    Default

    Also, he's very needy and dependent. He's 21 and still lives with his parents, CANNOT drive or pass the road test, works at his mother's convenience store (never had/sought another job)...

    I tried teaching him to drive...not pretty. It ended up in (his) tears. :rolli:
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
    sp/so
    Lawful Evil

    COCKBURN:

    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  7. #37
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/so
    Posts
    492

    Default

    ENTJ-INFJ are relations of Supervision where ENTJ plays role of Supervisor and INFJ plays the role of Supervisee. This is why ENTJ will dominate these relations. Marriages of this kind often turn into Pygmalion projects where ENTJ trying to change the INFJ by inserting more Te into INFJ's life. The INFJ, however, does not need Te and such attempts will be perceived as painful criticisms. Supervision relations are more uncomfortable and tiring for the Supervisee (INFJ in this case). INFJ will find that he/she constantly has to re-adjust to ENTJ's demands and ENTJ's demands will never cease as ENTJ will always see INFJ lacking in Te which ENTJ will be trying to provide.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=27528

    Supervision is an asymmetric relation (like relations of benefit) in which one partner, the Supervisor (ENTJ), is in a more powerful position psychologically than the other, the Supervisee (INFJ). This is due to the correlation of partners' functions, which allows the Supervisor to put more psychological pressure on the Supervisee through his leading function (Te) than vice versa. Typically, the supervisee feels somewhat wary or careful about his words when approaching a supervisor. This innate wariness can develop into a full-fledged supervision "syndrome" if given the right conditions, or it can remain at a manageable level if neither person is in a position of power over the other, and partners do not overstep the natural bounds of the relationship.

    Common ground between supervision partners is usually attained by the Supervisor's creative function (Ni for ENTJs) resonating with the leading function of the supervisee (Ni for INFJs). The attitudes expressed as absolute values by the supervisee are worthwhile to the supervisor, but are seen as a by-product of more important pursuits. Common ground can also be reached through the suggestive function of the supervisee (Se), which is the valued mobilizing function of the supervisor. However, both are weak in this area and tend to only discuss their pursuits rather than actually doing them together.

    The supervisor is usually interested in what the supervisee does and says, but at the same time feels like it is often in need of modification or reformulation from the point of view of his leading function. Because this reframing of issues corresponds to their vulnerable function, the supervisee may often feel frustrated with the supervisor's statements. If the supervisee begins to argue with the supervisor, the differences of viewpoint may quickly become more personal when the supervisor points out perceived 'flaws' in the supervisee's thinking style or way of doing things. Such comments are usually not intended to be damning criticism from the supervisor's point of view, but may well be interpreted as such by the supervisee, due to the inherent sensitivity of the vulnerable function. If they live together, the supervisee may find he can never live up to the supervisor's expectations or achieve his genuine appreciation. For a working relationship or friendship to work, the supervisor must exercise discipline and avoid commenting on the supervisee's weak points as he sees them.

    Though the supervisee's discomfort can become quite intense, it is often not evident at first glance. He will usually only talk about it with closer friends, finding it difficult to express to the supervisor without sounding childish. To the supervisor it will appear that the supervisee is overreacting. In the romantic sphere, the supervisor often finds the supervisee's use of his demonstrative function alluring, but will ultimately be unsatisfied with its sporadic nature. The supervisee in turn sees the supervisor as an admirable but somewhat bewildering persona.

  8. #38
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    853 sx/sp
    Posts
    4,981

    Default

    I had a several year, on-again-off-again thing with an INFJ guy not too long ago. He was a wonderful guy: handsome, driven, sensitive, philosophical. He told me he wanted to marry me once. I cared about him a lot, but I never felt I could truly be myself around him. I'm kinda rough around the edges, and I think he liked the idea of it more than the reality. For my part, I felt I constantly let him down. We'd have these odd subtext-laden, "symbolic" conversations that would on the surface be about something simple, but really weren't in actuality. I hated that. I would purposefully ignore the "real" question I was being asked because I couldn't stand the feeling I was being manipulated into revealing something, or reassuring him of something, or whatever. Overall, the relationship was stressful and unsatisfying for us both. I wouldn't do it again.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

Similar Threads

  1. [INFJ] INFJs and Single-Mindedness
    By Kiddo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 11-23-2009, 06:39 PM
  2. [INFJ] INFJs and Dating
    By Kiddo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 02-22-2009, 06:42 AM
  3. [INFJ] INFJ and Compliments
    By chippinchunk in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 01-24-2008, 09:20 AM
  4. [INFJ] INFJ and grief
    By tovlo in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 12-21-2007, 06:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO