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Thread: An angry ENTP

  1. #1
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Default An angry ENTP

    Hello there, dear rationales.

    I made this thread to discuss a friend of mine, most likely an ENTP, and his habit of being very aggressive towards me.

    So, how do I know he's an ENTP? Here's few points:

    -He's always ready to argue. Just about anything... and with anyone.
    -He's your "Devil's advocate" straight from the book. I mean, he's ready to confuse anyone around him just for good laughs. He's creating drama just to see how others would react.
    -He has truly an unique train of thoughts. He can come up with incredibly unique ideas, but is having big troubles with very basic logics.
    -Great improviser (especially verbally)
    -Very, very arrogant.

    Now, he's an ENTP alright?

    The history, a short version: We have been friends 10+ years now (which is about half of my life). There have been times we weren't that close (only saw like once a month), and there have been times I've spent most of time with him. In general, I think of him as my close friend.

    The problem: Lately we have been arguing a lot, and it has been very heated. And about every conversation we've had, it always ends up in shouting (lately I have force myself to remain calm, and cool-headed, but he's the same). It's intolerable, and I'm much happier with not having him around. But it's a long friendship... I can't discard a friend like that, at least not without trying to fix it.

    My view of the problem: He is aggressive. Whatever he says or does, is coated with venomous poisons. When I asked him to stop being so passive-aggressive, he just says: "Oh, sorry... I forgot that I have to treat you with silken gloves and pillows, so that you wouldn't hurt yourself. Maybe I should even agree with your infallible logics, because you are so all-knowing."

    And then he starts listing arguments in which he has proven himself being correct, and me showing my total lack of knowledge in the area in question.

    Anyway, as you probably can see, I don't care much about the arguments. I HATE his way of arguing. He's only looking for a victory, as if it was a competition of wits and competence, rather than a mutual search for the truth. And when he's winning, he starts to "beat down" his adversary with insults (regarding his intelligence and views).

    I think he's completely lacking empathy and is completely unable to see where I stand with my opinions.

    Now, what he thinks of this issue: I think he might see me as an elitist (well, I am a bit of an elitist. ) who thinks he's infallible and greater than anyone else. He might be thinking that I avoid straight confrontation and arguments because I would be afraid of losing them and thus proving that I'm not that wise after all.

    Anyways... It's a long rant. Hope you made it through here. I don't know if it was any good, since there's so much to tell, and I can only tell my side of the story. But any of you ENTPs had any similar troubles with ISTJs or other types? Or has anyone else had similar problems with ENTPs?
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  2. #2
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I understand the discomfort with letting go of someone that you have invested in for the past 10 years, but the way you tell it, there don't sound like many other options.

    You might be able to appreciate his good qualities if you heavily limit your contact with him. That means you don't have to deal relentlessly with his behaviour, and as such, might be able to tolerate his flaws enough to extract what is of value in him.

    However, it doesn't sound like close contact is affordable anymore. If you are really bothered by his attitude and behavior, it is reasonable that you don't want to put up with it. But he sounds like he can't be persuaded diplomatically. Being so dismissive of you, and sure of himself, means you likely won't be able to engage him seriously in his eyes. And supposing it's true that he doesn't understand logic, then you'll also just have a really hard time reasoning with him. Again, that means you can't persuade him.

    So, if persuasion isn't an option, then letting go may be your only way of avoiding his crap. The question is whether or not it is better to keep him and put up with it, or get rid of him to avoid it. Which is better to you?

    Also, I'm curious... Has he always been like this, and how does he treat other people?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #3
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Not sure if he's an ENTP, but he's certainly a douchebag.

    I would never treat a friend that way, I don't patronize people. You can try to talk to him, or write him a letter, saying that how he speaks to you hurts you. If he responds in a bad way, cut him loose. If he's willing to work at it, make sure that you are too. In my experience, whenever people don't get along, it's usually equally both of their faults.

    Good luck.

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    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    I had a friend like that, an ESTJ. I had to end it for peace of mind. Are you sure he's an ENTP?

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    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'm afraid that he'll be unable to step back and apologize for his manners. He doesn't see his folly, and thus won't make any concessions, so it would have to be who'd yield. And I promised myself not to yield so much anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Also, I'm curious... Has he always been like this, and how does he treat other people?
    Yes, he has always little bit like that. But never to this extent. And before he couldn't stay angry more than a minute, after which he would say something hilarious and we would laugh at it all.

    And I think he treats all the people little bit similarly, but of course, not to this extent. But other friends he has are not so analytical nor fact-respecting as I am, and thus aren't so often in arguments with him.

    Cutting off the connection won't be a problem, in practice that is. We only see each other like once in a two weeks in football (as in soccer) matches (we play for the same team, and do to his very comparative nature, we end up arguing very lot about the matches). But I'm willing to leave the team too, if we can't get along.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

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    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    I had a friend like that, an ESTJ. I had to end it for peace of mind. Are you sure he's an ENTP?
    Not 100%. He once took a test saying he was an ENFP, but after we read about ENFP and ENTP, we came into conclusion that ENTP fits him much better.

    However, he has some Se quantities, as he's so interested in being rich and having ultra high quality of life (limos, expensive suits, gold jewelry, etc...). So he might be an ESTP as well, but I have always seen him as an ENTP because of his wacky thoughts.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

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    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Wacky thoughts does not an ENTP make... Seriously, anyone can have "wacky" thoughts. ENTPs are pretty laid back. Yeah, we'll debate pretty much anything, but the rest of the description doesn't really fit.

    It doesn't matter what type he is. If you feel bad in his presence, that's your answer right there - he's not good for you. Staying friends with someone, just because you've always been friends with that person, is not healthy and is not the basis of a good relationship.

    Maybe he's going through a rough patch in his life and is taking it out on you? Maybe you should ask him... I know it must be difficult for you, but you shouldn't have to suffer in silence.

  8. #8
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    I had a very similar experience. ENTP count as some of my best friends - the passive/aggressive thing mixed with somewhat competitive exchanges I found typical.

    The thought of losing a good friend is more traumatic than losing a girlfriend. They are longer and often deeper, spanning decades of shared experience - good times and the bad.

    I'm told by my other half that I (unconsciously) engaged in such exchanges - factually correcting, supplying evidence, yada yada. I have no reason to doubt her in this.

    The issue becomes clearer when one person is abusive, verbally or otherwise.

    As MP nicely put it, he makes you feel like crap and I suspect you concluded that you don't enjoy his company anymore. Unless this is a temporary blip with his mood or stress - which are forgivable - you've answered the question yourself.

    I suspect you have an asymetical relationship in which his (undoubted) alpha male skills confer some benefit to you? Ignore them - they are irrelevant. The ten years is also irrelevant. Don't put good time after bad time.

    When disrespect and acrimony become normal it's time to blow the whistle.

    I recommend you to speak, one last time, and draw a line in the sand with his sharp tongue. Set a clear limit. If he crosses the line he can't say he wasn't warned.

    I been there; it's not easy. But it feels good when you finally realise you don't have to put up with trivial shit from people calling you friends. (You probably get enough shit without needing this joker adding to the pile.)

    Take ownership of the situation - so far, you're not.

    All the best.

  9. #9
    Te > Fi > Ni Shaula's Avatar
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    It seems that your friend is unwilling to change his behaviour. It's not fair for you to put up with his shit and by sticking around it teaches him the lesson that he can get away with it. In these cases it's best to walk away and not look back. It's tough but sometimes that's the best thing to do. I've been having problems with a friends of 10+ years too. I understand what you're going through. What a pain in the ass.

    I recommend you to speak, one last time, and draw a line in the sand with his sharp tongue. Set a clear limit. If he crosses the line he can't say he wasn't warned.
    I agree with this.
    Is not to be held accuntable for peeling errors.

  10. #10
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Wacky thoughts does not an ENTP make... Seriously, anyone can have "wacky" thoughts. ENTPs are pretty laid back. Yeah, we'll debate pretty much anything, but the rest of the description doesn't really fit.

    It doesn't matter what type he is. If you feel bad in his presence, that's your answer right there - he's not good for you. Staying friends with someone, just because you've always been friends with that person, is not healthy and is not the basis of a good relationship.

    Maybe he's going through a rough patch in his life and is taking it out on you? Maybe you should ask him... I know it must be difficult for you, but you shouldn't have to suffer in silence.
    I am glad you joined the forum, now I dont have to post so much anymore

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