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Thread: An angry ENTP

  1. #31
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    Yes, it is true that I'm somewhat of a control freak, but usually only on myself. But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often. Essentially, to be more SJ. And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.
    OMG!!! And he hasn't flipped you off for this as yet.. This, indeed may be one of the reasons he is acting out. He will NOT be controlled.

    Understanding that this type of all the types will not go along for rule's sake. WE just don't see the need for all these rules bec. we must decide for ourselves. Its not that we don't have any need to crusade to change them, we just tend to ignore them. Believe me, this causes problems for us, esp. at work when we are young, but it settles down as you mature. You realize you must work within the framework of the organization, BUT i caution you...we will NEVER be blindly obedient to anyone. We balk HARD inside and out, if necessary. It goes against we stand for and our hackles AND the hair stands up on the back of our neck.

    Just as you MUST follow order and rules, he MUST NOT. This is one of those essential things that drives SJ's nuts about us and we about them. SJ's need that order to feel at peace and settled. We , unequivocally, are in a chokehold with this kind of tight structure. That is why so many in the military and police are SJ's...social structure is not our forte, nor will it ever be, but we are great thinkers, model makers to the utmost. We are forever playing with ideas and systems...just think, if we had to go by rules all the time, we would likely NEVER come up with new and inventive things and ideas.

    Certainly, you would not wish to have someone telling you how to live your life...Just imagine being told that NO rules are forthcoming for you and that you must constantly figure out the rules and instructions to follow them. It would be very hard on you and you would be in a constant state of angst, anxiety and frustration. It is exactly the oppposite for us. And we don't seek to change your rule-oriented mind, but its like so many HAVE to tell us what is WRONG with us. There is nothing wrong with either of us..its simply a different orientation towards life.

    I will say that I have known a lot of SJ's that won't stop doing this...They must constantly barrage us with "how it should and will be"....I got to the point where I would either cringe or get angry inside when I saw one....I now see otherwise...Not all need to judge us on this and a number of them start mellowing out as they age, but they will still have the desire for structure over unstructure...

    There is a whole body of theory about development of your functions as it pertains to aging and maturity...you might wish to look it up...you will find some very very helpful info there...

    It might be true, that I may not be as easy-going or cheerful as his other friends, but before this incident he has always said it to be a good thing. Well, I shall introspect my own behavior even more.
    Well, too much of a "good thing" can end up tasting very sour and sickening...please realize that you are who you are, BUT he is who he is...he is fighting you bec. he is struggling with control over this or he is hurting...

    It used to hurt me greatly when people didn't appreciate this unique facet of my personality...but now, I so love that I have it, and I am not affected in the same way. I trust that God made me just as I was supposed to be and so are you...
    Last edited by pecan111; 02-11-2009 at 02:00 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #32
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    Now that I have been thinking more of it, he really could be an ESTP too. If he is, my apologies for questioning the great NT type.




    Yes, it is true that I'm somewhat of a control freak, but usually only on myself. But I have been his moral compass for a while. And I've thought him not to break rules so often. Essentially, to be more SJ. And it has been working: He won't be late so often any more, he puts garbage into a trash can (instead of throwing them to the streets) and he started studying harder.

    It might be true, that I may not be as easy-going or cheerful as his other friends, but before this incident he has always said it to be a good thing. Well, I shall introspect my own behavior even more.
    Which part of being a moral compass isn't 1. conrolling or 2 annoying as hell.

    It's not your place to pass judgements on people. Sorry I know I'm sounding cranky but if you have a problem with him the main thing you cna fix is yourself. Not everything is someone elses fault.

    Lis

  3. #33
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Which part of being a moral compass isn't 1. conrolling or 2 annoying as hell.

    It's not your place to pass judgements on people. Sorry I know I'm sounding cranky but if you have a problem with him the main thing you cna fix is yourself. Not everything is someone elses fault.

    Lis
    Agreed.

    Habba has lost all credibility with the "moral compass" goof...

    So much so, I thought this might be a slow-burning wind-up.

    Declaring oneself someone else's moral compass is about the most embarassing things I have ever heard.

    You lose, Habba. That's a FAIL.

    In Finnish.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Woah, hold on right there! You've been his moral compass? You've TAUGHT him not to break rules? If he's an entp, I give him all my support.
    Yes, I have. Beating up an innocent guy just for fun isn't cool. Shop-lifting isn't cool. Cheating money from people isn't cool. Being late 30min from a meeting isn't cool. Not paying back money lent isn't cool.

    These are the things I have taught him, and he has understood them. Have I mistaken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    If you want to be his moral compass, you'll just have to get used to him owning you in arguments and then showing the ownage down your throat. After all, you're force feeding him your morals.
    Actually, he's force-feeding his arguments on me. Like this for an example: We were both watching football, and there was a penalty kick. I just randomly made a remark, that I would shoot the upper-righthand corner. He said he would jump for the left side (he's a goalkeeper). Well, the player made a goal to the right-side of the goal, but not in the upper corner, and to which I said:

    Me: 'Darn, not really an upper corner, but right-side nevertheless...'
    He: 'What? I said I would go for the LEFT side?
    Me: 'Excuse me?'
    He: 'Yeah, and he shot for the left side of the goal!'
    Me: 'Well yeah, if you look from the goalkeeper's angle.'
    He: 'Of course you look from his angel, you moron! Why would you look from an reversed angle?'
    Me: 'Well, I merely stated that I, as a player, would go for the right upper corner. And he almost did.'
    He: 'Bullshit, just admit you were wrong!'
    Me: 'Well I didn't know we were arguing...'
    He: 'You are such an ass not being able to admit you've made a mistake!'

    And about me force-feeding morals... well, I have merely asked him to consider his actions, and to ponder how he would react himself if someone would do the same to him. I have never made any threats to him about moral behaviors. And I'm well aware that I'm far too judging on my own actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    And you can't teach an ENTP anything like that. You're confusing "teaching" with "forcing". If he wanted to follow rules, it'd be teaching, but then he probably wouldn't be ENTP.
    Being able to follow the rules is something everyone should learn, regardless off type.

    And no, it has not been working, he just CHOSE to do those stuff to make you shut up, not because you've convinced him or taught him anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Now that he's been playing along with you, have you adapted to him? Have you stopped assuming you know best?
    Yes, I have learned a great bit of being more social, less judging and more immediate with my actions. I love his enthusiasm, and I have said that to him too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    Haha, an ISTJ changing his behaviour, that makes me smile a little...
    Being judgmental is fun, isn't it now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pecan111 View Post
    we, we, we, we, we
    I always thought ENTPs were individualists. Sorry for not commenting your post much, but it was so much trouble just reading it (but of course, I read it). Please, could you use paragraphs the next time. (Hey, I'm SJ! I'm allowed to do this stuff. )

    I'll just generally say that you are being overly too aggressive for nothing. I'm not trying to control him, I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by pecan111 View Post
    There is a whole body of theory about development of your functions as it pertains to aging and maturity...you might wish to look it up...you will find some very very helpful info there...
    And I have. I am well aware that due to my inferior Ne I'm sometimes limited with my "visions". But I try to keep telling myself "Zoom out!" when I notice I'm concentrating too much on the details. And I have given myself more room for my emotions (tertiary Fi). Ten years ago I had just one emotional display, the "".

    But he hasn't, and he should. Regardless of him being and ESTP or ENTP, he has tertiary Fe, whichi according to some theory (Lenore Thompson) is used in defense mode after primary function fails. In his case, he's blasting negative emotions on everybody. And my tertiary Fi makes me cut out connections when I get angry. And that I have done.

    Thank you for your input, it has given me lots of thinking. Keep it coming, if you something more to add.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  5. #35
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    I always thought ENTPs were individualists. Sorry for not commenting your post much, but it was so much trouble just reading it (but of course, I read it). Please, could you use paragraphs the next time. (Hey, I'm SJ! I'm allowed to do this stuff. )
    i edited it...did it helP

  6. #36
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    And no, it has not been working, he just CHOSE to do those stuff to make you shut up, not because you've convinced him or taught him anything.
    Either that OR its possible that he thought that since he bent to you by modifying his behavior for you about some things, then it was time you stop continuing to try and bend him and bend yourself instead OR none of the above...He will have to be the one to tell you this.

    Yes, I have learned a great bit of being more social, less judging and more immediate with my actions. I love his enthusiasm, and I have said that to him too.
    I hope so...its a learning experience for both of you...




    I'll just generally say that you are being overly too aggressive for nothing. I'm not trying to control him, I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.
    sorry, didn't mean to come off sounding agressive...it is so tough to help others understand how antithetical this is to us.

    You don't have to say it in a mean way...but I feel I should point out something..

    are these your words?
    I'm trying to make him stop, even if just for a second, and ponder his actions.
    is that not control??? even though you mean well , are you his parent? Is this not for him to decide how to do this? If he is socially aloof or inept, then he will bear the consequences for his actions. I am afraid there is no other way to learn except through real life....can you love him enough to allow him to proceed on his journey? If so, you are being a true friend to him...if not, and he violates your personal boundaries, then you must protect yourself.


    Perhaps the question is....why do you not walk away and what do you NOT want to lose out of this friendship, alliance with him...Everyone must decide for themselves and sometimes it is so hard, so very hard to give up something that they perceive to have some value to them....Please consider this on a personal level.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Tiny Army's Avatar
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    Wow, I've never met an ENTP who acted like this.

    It does sound a lot like my ENTJ roomate, though.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pecan111 View Post
    is that not control??? even though you mean well , are you his parent?
    I'm his friend, and probably the best one he ever had (even though he wouldn't know it). And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly. If he wouldn't be my friend, I would just walk the other way.

    And I might, if things won't change soon.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    I'm his friend, and probably the best one he ever had (even though he wouldn't know it). And it's friend's duty to make one stop if he's acting stupidly. If he wouldn't be my friend, I would just walk the other way.

    And I might, if things won't change soon.

    Yea friends do help there. Which part of him, do you want to see change the most?

  10. #40
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfried View Post
    Yea friends do help there. Which part of him, do you want to see change the most?
    The aggressive part. The macho part. The part that doesn't understand differing opinions.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

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