[NT] ESFP living with two NTJ parents! HELP!

[defragmybrain]

Things have calmed down lately, but i when my parents and i fight, it seems we both ignore where we're originally coming from and fight because "thats what families do". We love eachother very much, but dont know how to bring out the best in each other.
The parents are both driven by structure, order, cleanliness, rigid schedules and such.
As you can imagine, i'm quite the opposite. First they thought it was because i'm still young and a teenager. Now that i'm 20 and still living with them (working/schooling though), they're confused as to why my disorganization and spontaniety won't go away.

How do i communicate with my parents? Especially my rigid INTJ father who's a TOTAL biological robot. I don't feel as though i know him as a person at all! if he ever needs to talk, it's about grades or work or scheduling. The moment the conversation is turned to things like our lives, our preferences, opinions on random topics.. he exclaims his opinion doesn't matter and 'why are you talking about opinions? its all about FACTS!"

It might have something to do with that we're an immigrant family of russians and my father grew up in a stiff soviet era, buuut i've met plenty of russian men of my dad's age who're plenty open and social.

Again, how do i reach out?!

 

[Metamorphosis]

I think that frequently INTJs will look at parenting from a teaching perspective, rather than a nurturing perspective. They want you to have all of the opportunities that they may not have had, and all of the knowledge that took them years to acquire. It's difficult for us to sit down and think about emotional needs of people around us.

Not that that necessarily helps you any, but maybe you can understand where he's coming from better.

 

[Isy]

That sounds so like Scorpio vs Saggitarius ^^.

Tell them they are right, and afterwards do what you want.

 

[defragmybrain]

yeah, i figured as much. the thing is,
i'm the sort who ...its not that i don't like to learn, i just feel belittled when someone tries to teach me something (someone without credentials, teachers don't count). As if i don't know any better, and they make me feel stupid.
So as soon as i snap back that "i'm not stupid, i know that", the INTJ father will just sulk off and decide not to talk to me anymore because i'm "creating drama".

I guess i should refine my question. How do i talk to an INTJ and get to know them?
I don't know any other intj's other than my dad, and its becoming increasingly difficult. How do i attract his attention in a good way?

 

[defragmybrain]

That sounds so like Scorpio vs Saggitarius ^^.

Tell them they are right, and afterwards do what you want.

actually this is a virgo vs. taurus, me being virgo dad being taurus (stubborn friggen russian bull...)

 

[Uytuun]

You can try doing something together. It doesn't have to be grand. Watch football together - talk about an article you both have read in the paper...don't just let him tell you what to do but address it in a calm manner. I find it easier to express affection through touch or actions than through words. If you want him to open up the way you naturally do with people, you'll probably be disappointed. But perhaps you can learn each other's language. One roundabout way of going about it is asking about achievements rather than emotional states etc...

He should really try to be more considerate towards you too. Perhaps you can tell him that you feel like you don't know him.

I have an INTJ father too - from my point of view he seems much less extreme than your dad, type can only go so far. I wonder what exactly you expect of him, though. He's never going to tell you the details of his day because that's entirely insignificant to him. One of the things my mother would always tell me was "You saw x today and you didn't tell me!". But all the grand broody Fi stuff should be there.

BTW, it's sweet that you're making the effort.

 

[Samvega]

If changing your type is not an option (I would go with that first) you're going to have an insane hard time dealing with an NT, even worse being an ESF female with an INT male. The best I think you can do is accept, I don't think he's ever really going to understand that side of you as he doesn't sound like an NT working on balance. I wish you luck as I would have a tough time with two NTJs and you have none of the tools needed.. Sometimes I think you will just need to have some blind faith that the things you need are there just not spoken.

 

[Kalach]

Two NTJs? Momz is a E? (And Pops is under Mom's thumb, or they have a balance?)

If Pop is INTJ, he's driven by feeling much more than he knows. Insane ranting and high pressure directing comes from feeling base. This would be compounded by his being "Teh Dad"--he has the right to rule (says his Fi).

Anything that recognises and reduces his feeling burden will put him a hell of a lot more at ease than he seems to be now. Anything that lets his decisions come true (or be developed) is good too.

But challenge his authority directly, and you'll antagonise his Fi, and he'll back up into a corner to fight.


Thing is, if he's a real INTJ and he's exercising a lot of control over you, then he's wearing himself really thin. You actually won't--I mean really won't--be able just to tell him that you have the right to your own choices. You'll have to show that you can make them.

If he's real INTJ, then he's seeing all the shit that can go wrong. Or he thinks he's seeing it. What'll let him have a rest is to see you making good decisions.

ESFP "good" decisions:

start looking for the difference between this:

let's have balls out fun right now!

and this:

I know the meaning of what I'm doing and I know why it's good.



Or something like that. I've only met one ESFP that I know of. Older guy. Action hero. Had some adventures under his belt--motor biking in Asia, white water rafting, kayaking across borders without a visa nor a care in the world. Fairly centered. For an old guy

 

[Fuent]

actually this is a virgo vs. taurus, me being virgo dad being taurus (stubborn friggen russian bull...)

Virgo vs taurus, libra vs magic, lets put that silly stuff aside and focus on the real.

 

[defragmybrain]

Virgo vs taurus, libra vs magic, lets put that silly stuff aside and focus on the real.

the question was asked. i'm not particularily interested in astrology myself.

 

[Isy]

I said nothin', I said nothin'

 

[Fuent]

the question was asked. i'm not particularily interested in astrology myself.

No harm done here.

 

[Fuent]

I said nothin', I said nothin'

Harm? Is that you? Why are you hiding?