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  1. #1
    Senior Member Fuent's Avatar
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    Default INTJ and ENTP; Intuition

    So i have a question for you gals and lads. INTJ and ENTP, can someone of these two personalities effectively change himself based on the way they use their intuition? Let me elaborate a little bit.

    ENTP: Ne Ti Fe Si

    INTJ: Ni Te Fi Se

    What's similar here?

    So I'm an INTJ right, or at least i think i am. What happens when instead of being introverted i just leap of faith myself and say whatever is on the top of my mind as it materializes. I start getting reactions from people from my perspective because i put out the external thing that is focused on(what i say in conversation). From that, i can analyze their reactions and keep reacting, using my intuition to push the situation towards a certain goal. I want to say more but I'm gonna stop here cause i keep erasing what i type. It's not coming out right yet.

    What's the connection? Is it possible to switch to the other type that uses your main function(intuition, thinking, etc) in an internal or external way? Is it easier for these types to imitate/morph into that type? ENTPs and INTJs function way different, but they all have the same big letters (NTFS) in the same order. What's different is the smaller letters which externalize or internalize the function.

    Your thoughts?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    INTP... I think not.

  2. #2
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Well my thoughts would be first of all, if you want to change yourself you have to stop to talk about typetheory and to try to analyze personality that way. That would be a domain of Ti which is the primary strength of INTJ in my opinion.

    Moreso I think that INTJ and ENTP both use Ne, the one as second and the other one as primary function. I dont believe in the MBTI system, more into socionics, because I have seen Ni in action in INTPs and INFPs and the INTJ is more the "to-the-bone" analytical type. The few manifestations of Ni-ness within the INTJs are absolutely making sense, because and that leads to another point, if you are a master of introverted thinking, you are a master of extroverted thinking aswell (or Ni and Ne in that case). The difference just says what you like more.

    To answer your question: I dont think that type theory is that dynamic that it would work that way. You see imagine you have a differential equation, which describes a procedure in the real world. And it has an invariance to time and is not real. How can you solve it ?

    You have to transform it into an imaginative area, where you simplify it and explain it. Thats like the real world and MBTI. Where the real world is the equation and MBTI is the imaginated area.

    You now can solve the differential equation easily because you made yourself a set of tools which describes complex things in the real world with simplified things in your helping image world.

    But if you start to try bending the real world, by the simplified means of the imaginated world, you will most surely loose track of your differential equation.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #3
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuent View Post
    So i have a question for you gals and lads. INTJ and ENTP, can someone of these two personalities effectively change himself based on the way they use their intuition? Let me elaborate a little bit.

    ENTP: Ne Ti Fe Si

    INTJ: Ni Te Fi Se

    What's similar here? What's the connection? Your thoughts?
    I know that under stress, I am an INTJ, not, ISFJ...others call it my 'zone'. Mostly happens when my P punked off, and I'm at the 11th hour, and shyte needs to get done. That's when I want NO external stimuli (no other sound [turn off TV, music, everything], interaction, nothing), I'm putting stuff together (that's when I have all the info I think I may need, scattered around me, and I plunge head-first, to organize it as one coherent, logical system of thought), and I get very moody and personal at that time. Anything, e.g., my mom coming into my room to say I haven't slept in 2 days, or, that I need to eat, bathe, MOVE from my spot even, ends with me in rage at the interruption (I get drenched in my personalized feelings of *self*...which I rarely tap into, otherwise). I have a plan then, and I stick to it, regimentally, e.g., 2 pages in 1 hour, and by 0.59, my last word on page 2 will be done. No exceptions.

    But, my leading functions stay very much so intact. NT.

    That to me looks like an unhealthy INTJ...if you take them to the extreme. I don't know if, under stress, you become more ENTP, or it may be that for introverted type personalities, to take on the extroverted persona, it's the exact opposite, i.e., when completely NOT stressed, you become ENTP? While an ENTP when totally stressed becomes INTJ? Anecdotally, b/w me and and INTJ (who I know closely enough to comment), this is the case. If he's super happy, and (once in a blue moon), completely carefree, he's very ENTPish. Reasoning? Maybe cuz since E/I being that how one gains their energy leads an introvert to seek it out when their energy level is maximum (i.e., they've already gained all their energy internally, and it's maxed out) so they are free beyond the constraints of their nature, and thus, explore the other side (while retaining their order of preferred functions). While, for an extrovert, whose nature is to gain energy externally, when stressed, extroverted energy may feel like our villian (i.e., too much coming in, it needs to be tamed, controlled...focused), and thus, it skews our predisposed perceptions such that we have to resort to the complete opposite of the same coin that we're so used to playing with (i.e., still intuition, thinking, feeling and sensing, but, in the opposite direction). I think introverted Js become more introverted & J when stressed, and the opposite when completely not stressed. While, extroverted P become completely opposite when stressed, and when not stressed, their extroverted P takes flight even higher (and more nuttier).

    Just a random observation....no merit, no systematic thought to the above. So, I still gotta then tackle how introverted P vs. extroverted J may work out. I'll think on it some more (my mama's an INFP and dad ESTJ), and see if I can apply the above 'logic' to their cases.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    For me that's the case as well, I become more E and P when I'm completely free. Yee!

    Or possibly it's the Se coming out?

  5. #5
    o edward cullen! Ardea's Avatar
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    I was just pondering this today... and I think it is very possible!

    There are situations that would make me switch personalities - usually chemical, I would become very INTJ. I felt a bit like a frustrated, quiet robot.
    Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #6
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    One thing to consider is that like all introverted functions, Ni is hidden and without thought, like memory. It is just there and runs within via modulation, where as Ne requires perception.

    What you are stating is quite obvious of any ENTP/INTJ if they have both strong N functions. In a simpler statement, a J can act like a P, and a P can act like a J.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons View Post
    One thing to consider is that like all introverted functions, Ni is hidden and without thought, like memory. It is just there and runs within via modulation, where as Ne requires perception.
    All this time I thought Ni was a perceiving function, right up until lemons solved all my f'n problems.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Fuent's Avatar
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    Something curious i just realized...

    So if you look at the INTJ's shadow processes, in order from opposing, senex, trickster, and daemon, it forms the ENTPs four main processes, Ne, Ti, Fe, Si. Same for the ENTP and the INTJ switched.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    INTP... I think not.

  9. #9
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    It stands to reason that an intuitive, no matter whether he's introverted or extroverted, should have at least some proficiency with intuition in the opposite domain.

    It's easier to just think of an ENTP as an extroverted intuitive, thus tending to apply intuition to the outside world of possibilities. From time to time, he'll face situations where he'll apply it to the internal domain of time-based potential. Call that what you will--I suppose "acting INTJ" is fine.

    Jung placed a significant amount of importance on the E/I axis, which is probably why there's such a traditional separation between Ne and Ni in the functional descriptions. It seems that those who are balanced on that particular axis tend to identify with both more often than those who are one extreme.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuent View Post
    So I'm an INTJ right, or at least i think i am.
    Since the test in your signature says otherwise and you sound doubtful, perhaps you aren't. From just the way your post was written I would type you as xNTP.

    What happens when instead of being introverted i just leap of faith myself and say whatever is on the top of my mind as it materializes. I start getting reactions from people from my perspective because i put out the external thing that is focused on(what i say in conversation). From that, i can analyze their reactions and keep reacting, using my intuition to push the situation towards a certain goal. I want to say more but I'm gonna stop here cause i keep erasing what i type. It's not coming out right yet.
    You just described using Ne. Either it is one of your preferred functions because you are an INTP or ENTP, or you are using it as an INTJ. Just because it isn't a preference doesn't mean you can't use it. We can use all 8 cognitive functions. Use and preference are not the same thing. I'm an INTJ and I can tap into Ne, it's just not my default.

    What's the connection? Is it possible to switch to the other type that uses your main function(intuition, thinking, etc) in an internal or external way? Is it easier for these types to imitate/morph into that type? ENTPs and INTJs function way different, but they all have the same big letters (NTFS) in the same order. What's different is the smaller letters which externalize or internalize the function.

    Your thoughts?
    Ne and Ni are not the same but it's possible you can use them both. Many people can use both the introverted and extroverted versions of their dominant function. You aren't morphing type, you are just using more functions. Have you taken a cognitive process test? Do Ni and Ne both test high?

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