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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by matroosje View Post
    But what I want to ask is this: INTJís that I know have a very strong feeling that I rarely have. The feeling of certainty. Certainty is an emotional state of the brain attached to an idea, just like anger or fear. Now certainty is a feeling I almost never have. Iím almost never certain about anything (actually Iím not even certain about that.) It often happens that INTJís I know are are so certain about their idea's that when I argue with them, they end up telling me not only what's wrong with my idea's, but whatís wrong with me.
    A feeling based conclusion is not cast in stone. Feelings can change. That is probably why you never feel certain.

    On the other hand, logic is absolute. If the reasoning was sound, the conclusion cannot be invalidated simply because someone don't like it. There is no uncertainty unless the conclusion was based on questionable information.

  2. #62
    Member Petite Etoile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matroosje View Post
    But what I want to ask is this: INTJís that I know have a very strong feeling that I rarely have. The feeling of certainty. Certainty is an emotional state of the brain attached to an idea, just like anger or fear. Now certainty is a feeling I almost never have. Iím almost never certain about anything (actually Iím not even certain about that.) It often happens that INTJís I know are are so certain about their idea's that when I argue with them, they end up telling me not only what's wrong with my idea's, but whatís wrong with me.

    So what do you INTJís think? Enlighten me.
    i would think this has more to do with the fact that we're J and not P than T/F simply because J's like to have closure and being certain of something gives them that closure and P's prefer to have options, so if they're not certain about something that means there can still be other possibilities.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by matroosje View Post
    Greetings to all NTís.
    But what I want to ask is this: INTJís that I know have a very strong feeling that I rarely have. The feeling of certainty. Certainty is an emotional state of the brain attached to an idea, just like anger or fear. Now certainty is a feeling I almost never have. Iím almost never certain about anything (actually Iím not even certain about that.) It often happens that INTJís I know are are so certain about their idea's that when I argue with them, they end up telling me not only what's wrong with my idea's, but whatís wrong with me.

    So what do you INTJís think? Enlighten me.
    Well, thinking based off of accrued knowledge is the best way IMO to reach a conclusion and produce. It is easy to be certain when you employ thinking as your primary tool. When you have the fundamental knowledge necessary to endeavor, conjoined with at least a rudimentary set of logical rules, it is almost to easy to tread with certainty.
    One can easily get across ideas and be assertive about it when the building blocks are constituted of 100% concrete methodologies. You can be as abstract or dreamy as you want to be, and still be certain so long as the basic tenets of your logic are tightly interwoven with sound and valid postulates. In essence, the tools one invokes in order to provide the buttress for ideas is what allows me to remain confident of my delineations. Using feeling as a buttress just does not give me the solid foundation that I am comfortable with. Perhaps this works for other people, but most of the time it does not work for me.
    Does that answer your question?

  4. #64
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    Oh and to follow up on your uncertainty:
    I don't think it has anything to do with your feeling preference. You haven't become comfortable with your instincts yet. IMO you need to become more familiar with how you "feel" things out. Do not be afraid to be wrong, even when you are wrong, you must remember that feeling. When you are right, you must remember that feeling. Over time you will have substantiated your intuition accurately enough to tread with overpowering confidence.
    Trust me on this, work with what you have, and nothing can stop the way you "feel" things out. If you try this, I honestly believe you can develop a more confident gait than the typical INTJ.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petite Etoile View Post
    i would think this has more to do with the fact that we're J and not P than T/F simply because J's like to have closure and being certain of something gives them that closure and P's prefer to have options, so if they're not certain about something that means there can still be other possibilities.
    This is also a possibility.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    Oh and to follow up on your uncertainty:
    I don't think it has anything to do with your feeling preference. You haven't become comfortable with your instincts yet. IMO you need to become more familiar with how you "feel" things out. Do not be afraid to be wrong, even when you are wrong, you must remember that feeling. When you are right, you must remember that feeling. Over time you will have substantiated your intuition accurately enough to tread with overpowering confidence.
    Trust me on this, work with what you have, and nothing can stop the way you "feel" things out. If you try this, I honestly believe you can develop a more confident gait than the typical INTJ.
    I'm coming in late to this discussion, but yeah,
    1. By "feel", do you mean the sequence of feelings that lead to a certain conclusion and conviction? Or a general feeling/gut rxn related to something.
    2. When I'm wrong/have been proven to be wrong (whether in a deduction or a decision), it's extremely distressing, to the point of being overpoweringly painful, whether it's thinking or feeling I've depended on to reach that point.
    How would remembering a feeling help? If that feeling is wrong in the first place, wouldn't it be something delusional and entirely foolish to cling to.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by pockets View Post
    I'm coming in late to this discussion, but yeah,
    1. By "feel", do you mean the sequence of feelings that lead to a certain conclusion and conviction? Or a general feeling/gut rxn related to something.
    2. When I'm wrong/have been proven to be wrong (whether in a deduction or a decision), it's extremely distressing, to the point of being overpoweringly painful, whether it's thinking or feeling I've depended on to reach that point.
    How would remembering a feeling help? If that feeling is wrong in the first place, wouldn't it be something delusional and entirely foolish to cling to.
    Sorry, I guess I was not too specific with my words. Well, we usually remember facts and experiences based off of "feelings." If you're a feeler, you should have a natural advantage with respect to this thought. What I was basically saying was that feelings will help you connect experiences together in a sort of "database."

    When in a situation that requires "confidence", you will be able to make swift decisions with little hesitation. I posit this because this is how the human memory works in general: we associate. Therefore you won't have to plan and waste time laying out postulates.

    And I don't think being wrong is always a bad thing. I think of it as a learning experience. Every now and then we all learn through the process of reinforcement; whether that reinforcement is positive or negative, we still use it.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    So, I'm not the type of person that lets emotions cloud my judgment. I personally feel that they inhibit my ability to stay objective throughout life.
    I know my reply to this isn't answering your question at all, but I had to comment on these two statements. No one acts objectively. Some people realize that they judge things subjectively and some people don't.

    Consider this fact. All people (with rare exceptions) are effected by emotion and their resultant actions reflect this. To ignore emotion, even your own, is to only look at part of the equation, thereby limiting your understanding, rather than aiding it.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I know my reply to this isn't answering your question at all, but I had to comment on these two statements. No one acts objectively. Some people realize that they judge things subjectively and some people don't.

    Consider this fact. All people (with rare exceptions) are effected by emotion and their resultant actions reflect this. To ignore emotion, even your own, is to only look at part of the equation, thereby limiting your understanding, rather than aiding it.
    Yea I pretty much acknowledged that earlier in the thread. It would be really naive and silly to completely disregard the importance of the emotional component. I agree, it is absolutely imperative for healthy functioning. Blame the misconstrual on my volubility; I should be more vigilant with my posts. I am often the source of many misunderstandings when I start a conversation.

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