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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    Wow, looks like we have elucidated much over the past few days. This is all really good, and we have covered much ground. I know this is contrary to the advice of a few wise posters, -- but some of you appear to be venturing back into a more MBTI equipped analysis again. Which is okay, -- but let's take another look at that:

    So I don't know, would you say that a good way to develop tertiary Fi, is to employ Fe a lot more. So that we can help ourselves understand Fi, by sharing Fe? It was just a thought that occurred to me. We can experiment, and even engage in Fe right now.

    Voluntary:
    What are some moments that made you vulnerable/emotional/cry? Explain every detail from your perspective (in as Fe as a manner as possible). Be as comprehensive as you can, so as to maximize empathy and understanding.
    As an INTJ who has difficulty accessing feelings, I find it difficult to believe that another INTJ would ask such a question, and now I'm a bit paranoid that you're only pretending to be one of us. *closes up*

  2. #32
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    As an INTJ who has difficulty accessing feelings, I find it difficult to believe that another INTJ would ask such a question, and now I'm a bit paranoid that you're only pretending to be one of us. *closes up*
    Personally I see nothing wrong with people who like to be an INTJ. One can learn quite a bit.
    Besides, I don't think WAF is only pretending to be an INTJ, only because he has managed what other INTJs didn't figure out yet: dealing with / having emotions.

    I know I said it a couple of times already, but I say it again: I kinda hate how a lot of people seem to stick to the "typical" definiton of INTJs. There is nothing wrong with having feelings; not even for INTJs. And somehow I find it kinda assy to say "INTJs aren't supposed to have feelings; and if you do you are none". Some tolerance please?
    There are enough well-balanced INTJs (and also other types) on this forum and telling people "You aren't an xxxx, because you don't behave like the typical xxxx" is just disrespectful.
    I know there are a few people who don't know what they exactly are or mistype themselves, but that's still no reason to go all smartass on them in an annoying way. We are a community, not in war. Just saying.
    Note that I don't mean that people can't have own opinions, but this "You are not a whatever, because of whatever" is just starting to annoy me. In the end people are what they wanna be anyways.


    As for your question, WithoutaFace, I am not too much into Fi, Fe etc. I never looked it up, just because I didn't need it. So I can't help you on that.
    And for an experience with crying or being emotional: I'd first have to think about that. But I am sure some other people will come up with stuff too meanwhile. =)
    Rule #1: Driver picks the music. Shotgun shuts his cakehole.

    Again, Demons I get, but people are just crazy.

    ESTP? o.O

  3. #33
    Senior Member scattershot's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm confused on this whole "INTJs don't have feelings" thing. Isn't Fi supposed to be your 3rd cognitive function? Maybe you guys don't express it as much as the other types, but I really don't get why the thought of INTJs having emotions is such a shock to everyone.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Basically, how do INTJs react, how does tertiary Fi affect them (and inferior Fi for ENTJs)? Maybe, the 'breaks' happen because you don't even realize you're having an emotional reaction to something, and it just builds up until you explode?
    This about describes it for me.

    For completeness, I'll just recopy here:

    Quote Originally Posted by greed View Post
    Believe you me, when I as an ENTJ get into the world of feelings, I often just get plain confused about them and by them. I find that not being in control of them can just lead to disaster. We might dismiss them as unimportant at times, but I think often that's it's a front to guard against admitting weakness in that realm.

    When I know exactly how I feel, all's fine and I can readily express it.. but when I don't? Cognitive meltdown.

    With F on the bottom of the totem pole combined with NT's tendency for directness and our tendency to want to resolve issues, take action, and bounce important ideas off of people.. well, we've got many a contradiction with respect to feelings.

    So, our feelings are either completely resolved merely by dismissing them, or they're just a confusing, unresolved mess that drives us insane and everyone knows about it.

  5. #35
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    So I don't know, would you say that a good way to develop tertiary Fi, is to employ Fe a lot more. So that we can help ourselves understand Fi, by sharing Fe? It was just a thought that occurred to me. We can experiment, and even engage in Fe right now.
    I would say that a good way to develop Fi is stop questioning things. Try to stop using Te, or try to stop using it as much. After that then focus not on Fi, but focus on Ni. With Te out of the picture it goes from Ni to Fi.

    I would say, but I'm not expert, and I certainly don't have a understanding of what has helped me develop Fi - but that is my best understanding of how I did it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    Voluntary:
    What are some moments that made you vulnerable/emotional/cry? Explain every detail from your perspective (in as Fe as a manner as possible). Be as comprehensive as you can, so as to maximize empathy and understanding.
    Hah. No.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  6. #36
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
    Ok, I'm confused on this whole "INTJs don't have feelings" thing. Isn't Fi supposed to be your 3rd cognitive function? Maybe you guys don't express it as much as the other types, but I really don't get why the thought of INTJs having emotions is such a shock to everyone.
    The people that would think that would most likely also think most NTs don't have feelings. Which is completely false.

    And even if they realize NTs (and INTJs for that matter) have feelings they probably don't understand how their feelings operate. I think that is what is going on here. People are just curious about how it operates for INTJs, not really denying it exists.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  7. #37
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    Voluntary:
    What are some moments that made you vulnerable/emotional/cry? Explain every detail from your perspective (in as Fe as a manner as possible). Be as comprehensive as you can, so as to maximize empathy and understanding.
    Oh and, that's a wrong way to look at Fe. Fe isn't "talking about feelings" and Fi isn't "feeling about feelings."

    If I were to use Te to analyze my Fi, and then talked about my feelings, would this be Fe? No. It would be Fi still.

    Here, Fe: Extraverted Feeling

    The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The “social graces,” such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others’ feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.
    Here, Fi: Introverted Feeling

    It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life’s situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, “Sometimes, some things just have to be said.” On the other hand, most of the time this process works “in private” and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the “essence” of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  8. #38
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Thanks for the Fe/Fi breakdown... I haven't ever heard them described like that.

    Ok, I'm confused on this whole "INTJs don't have feelings" thing. Isn't Fi supposed to be your 3rd cognitive function? Maybe you guys don't express it as much as the other types, but I really don't get why the thought of INTJs having emotions is such a shock to everyone.
    I think its the fact that, while we certainly DO have feelings, we aren't as likely to express them to anyone who isn't within our close circle.
    Embrace the possibilities.

  9. #39
    Kickin' Ass since 1984 GargoylesLegacy's Avatar
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    Oh, WAF, I can answer your question now with a "live answer":

    Quote Originally Posted by WithoutaFace View Post
    What are some moments that made you vulnerable/emotional/cry?
    I didn't have to cry, but I was quite emotional until just a few minutes ago. It was about something I saw on my favorite tv show and I could VERY relate to the character, since it happened to me too already. So I could sympathize / empathize with him and how he felt.
    Rule #1: Driver picks the music. Shotgun shuts his cakehole.

    Again, Demons I get, but people are just crazy.

    ESTP? o.O

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    As an INTJ who has difficulty accessing feelings, I find it difficult to believe that another INTJ would ask such a question, and now I'm a bit paranoid that you're only pretending to be one of us. *closes up*
    INTJMom. Regardless of anyone's type, it is completely natural for one to tap into feelings. Remember that there is a dichotomy to every part here (I think? Someone correct me if I am wrong). For example if one has a rating of "55" or whatever on introversion, it does not mean that a person is going to be introverted in there information gathering approach all the time. It is dichotomous, which means there are going to to be times when you might decide that extroversion is a better approach. Introversion would probably be your preferred method.

    As for accessing feelings/emotions:
    Emotion is a vital element in human survival. It is a part of human evolution that made us who we are. Stress hormones like cortisol flow through our veins when we're angry, scared, or helpless. They help us survive during stressful moments, so that we are forced into making decisions. Emotions can also chemical responses to our loved ones. If we did not have "emotions" how would we protect our babies? If it wasn't for chemicals like serotonin, how would we begin to love and feel good around others? How would we even pair up with other humans? Emotions are not as alien as you think they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    Oh and, that's a wrong way to look at Fe. Fe isn't "talking about feelings" and Fi isn't "feeling about feelings."

    If I were to use Te to analyze my Fi, and then talked about my feelings, would this be Fe? No. It would be Fi still.

    Here, Fe: Extraverted Feeling



    Here, Fi: Introverted Feeling
    Thanks for clearing that up DM. I'm finally starting to learn some things about MBTI here.

    Quote Originally Posted by GargoylesLegacy View Post
    Oh, WAF, I can answer your question now with a "live answer":


    I didn't have to cry, but I was quite emotional until just a few minutes ago. It was about something I saw on my favorite tv show and I could VERY relate to the character, since it happened to me too already. So I could sympathize / empathize with him and how he felt.
    Thanks G, that's a start. So I guess this means that Fi is really important to the INTJ at times.

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