User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 163

  1. #71
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Willfrey View Post

    Tinkerbell, have you ever once looked over your astrological profile trying to critically debunk it? Do you believe your system is unflawed?
    Sadly free be computer reports are not brilliant but they give some insight about how it all works. The 29 pound version is better but not massively better. A proper reading with a proper astrologer is the thing that sets the pace. Computers haven't been programmed to really be able to interpret chart, it uses coffee table defintions and chucks them at you. If you are reading properly then they work together and in different ways at different times.

    L

  2. #72
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    IsTP
    Posts
    615

    Default

    So in other words different versions of astrology are better than others, which naturally explains the flaws inherent in my profile of course.

    This is why it doesn't stand up in a scientific standpoint. Jung's test (with all its flaws) I can understand because it takes data from what it attempts to describe. Astrology takes data from a completely unrelated source and tries to tie them into your personality and events. With the exception of the Moon's gravity and the Sun's gravity & electromagnetic activity there is absolutely NO force given off by any other celestial body that effects us here on earth. *If* there was some unkown force, astrology theoretically could have predicted the existance of, say, extrasolar planets, or large transneptunian objects, namely Eris?
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  3. #73
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Hi

    They are not unrelated sources, they are off the shelf sources...there is a big difference. Online stuff is just done by a computer, it takes say Venue sextile Mars and says, something along the lines of you are charming and aserive about your love need - however if the same aspect also has a Pluto square going to Mars - it really changes the impact on Venus, most computes can only cope with linerar interpreation, not interelatedness.

    With MBTI everyone gets 1/16 profiles, astrology tries to personalise it a huge bit more. Someone born 10 days after you will have some things in common but a lot of differences too.

    As for forces of the planet - you state what is currently know, but I doubt we know all that much about it as yet.... will we ever - possibly, in time, but probably not in either of our lifetimes.

    Astrology also uses a whole lot o astraiod and outter planets, but they have less impact than the main ones used. We are of course missing 2 planets, the ruler of virgo and the ruler of Taurus (which have Mercury and Venus as co rulers with Gemini and Libra - will that chage? maybe in time).

    Astrology may well be provable in time, in the say way as in the future we may be able to prove the meridians in our bodies exsist (the ones accupuncture uses to heal). Accupuncture works under blind testing, works on animals etc etc... Because astrology tries to personalise too much it has not really been tested in a way that is repeatable and blind testable. I'm itching to do some work with a telecoms company and see if I can predict high volume users, and when there will be peaks and troughs in the service... technically it's using very big picture astrology rather uneque per person, in the same way a segmentation is used for direct mail etc....

    Lis

  4. #74
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    IsTP
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Hi

    They are not unrelated sources, they are off the shelf sources...there is a big difference. Online stuff is just done by a computer, it takes say Venue sextile Mars and says, something along the lines of you are charming and aserive about your love need - however if the same aspect also has a Pluto square going to Mars - it really changes the impact on Venus, most computes can only cope with linerar interpreation, not interelatedness.
    Yes the are all unrelated. The only thing Mars has in common with Pluto is that it is a ball of material in our solar system. There is nothing mysterious about them. Neither have any measurable effect to us on earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    With MBTI everyone gets 1/16 profiles, astrology tries to personalise it a huge bit more. Someone born 10 days after you will have some things in common but a lot of differences too.
    Are you kidding me? Some things in common but a lot of differences? That is true for absolutely every human being that is or has walked on this earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    As for forces of the planet - you state what is currently know, but I doubt we know all that much about it as yet.... will we ever - possibly, in time, but probably not in either of our lifetimes.
    So for any points I make that you cannot explain you chock it up to the great unknown. Instead of understanding that the forces of physics clearly show planets have no influence on our lives you prop astrology up by saying there are forces we'll never discover. To me its the equivalent of a toddler plugging his ears, shutting his eyes and going singing "LA LA LA" in the face of reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Astrology also uses a whole lot o astraiod and outter planets, but they have less impact than the main ones used. We are of course missing 2 planets, the ruler of virgo and the ruler of Taurus (which have Mercury and Venus as co rulers with Gemini and Libra - will that chage? maybe in time).
    Good to know, considering there are well over a billion asteroids in our solar system greater than a hundred meters in diameter. There could be potentially hundreds that have achieved hydrostatic equilibrium (spherical) beyond Neptune's orbit. I'm sure every one of these bodies will be represented somehow in astrology, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Astrology may well be provable in time, in the say way as in the future we may be able to prove the meridians in our bodies exsist (the ones accupuncture uses to heal). Accupuncture works under blind testing, works on animals etc etc... Because astrology tries to personalise too much it has not really been tested in a way that is repeatable and blind testable. I'm itching to do some work with a telecoms company and see if I can predict high volume users, and when there will be peaks and troughs in the service... technically it's using very big picture astrology rather uneque per person, in the same way a segmentation is used for direct mail etc....

    Lis
    Meridians? Acupuncture? Anything else you wish to add, tinkerbell? Ley lines? UFO's? Sasquatch?
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  5. #75
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    I agree with tinkerbell that the online free "teaser" tests are not a good measure of charting as a whole - they are intended for entertainment (and a convenient way to encourage you to schill out extra $$ for the detailed version!)

    Does anyone know of a controlled study where a renowned astrologer has done charting and then compared it to personality profiles for those individuals?

  6. #76
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    IsTP
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I agree with tinkerbell that the online free "teaser" tests are not a good measure of charting as a whole - they are intended for entertainment (and a convenient way to encourage you to schill out extra $$ for the detailed version!)

    Does anyone know of a controlled study where a renowned astrologer has done charting and then compared it to personality profiles for those individuals?
    PeaceBaby, if a known astrologer conducted a study to prove/disprove the correlation between planetary bodies and personalities/events it'd most certainly come back in favor of astrology. Astrologers make money off astrology, why on earth would they try to discredit the very thing that gives them a paycheck?

    A better option is to look at studies conducted by colleges which aren't influenced money/personal belief. Unsurprisingly astrology doesn't hold up too well, there have been innumerous studies everywhere and you don't have to look too far to find them.
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  7. #77
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISTP
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Does anyone know of a controlled study where a renowned astrologer has done charting and then compared it to personality profiles for those individuals?
    There are lots - google scholar.

    The test to note are the ones where the astrologists are given the right/wrong information, produce a result for the person, who then judges its accuracy. If you look into it, you'll find that the degree of belief in astrology defines how accurate we find it to be... that is, those that believe manage to find reports done on other people's birthdays accurate, etc.

    The problem with the study you mention is that there is rarely any falsifiable information given by the astrologer to which you can test the person with. Not surprisingly, either, people tend to identify with positive comments a lot, regardless of how true they are.

    edit: One thing I should mention is that I'm against astrology as a basis for understanding. I find it a lot more useful and helpful than religion is, strangely enough, as it tends to give people a more open identity.

  8. #78
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Willfrey View Post
    PeaceBaby, if a known astrologer conducted a study to prove/disprove the correlation between planetary bodies and personalities/events it'd most certainly come back in favor of astrology.
    LOL, I'm not suggesting it be moderated by the astrologer, it would need to be a double-blind study, much like controlled trials are conducted. Perhaps charting is done, then MBTI, and a comparison done between the two. Results are revealed to the participants (without knowledge of which is which), hard-boiled to statements that they either agree or disagree with.

    Anyhoo, a few random thoughts tossed in the ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    There are lots - google scholar ... If you look into it, you'll find that the degree of belief in astrology defines how accurate we find it to be...
    And, ugh, I don't want to sift through 57000 results in google - if there have been studies conducted like the one proposed above, I would enjoy a direct link. I am not so interested in the topic to sift through all that ... LOL! Thanks though!

    And I agree that people find if the description fits, they believe - regardless of origin - astrology or MBTI or whatever.

  9. #79
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Willfrey View Post
    Neither have any measurable effect to us on earth.

    Instead of understanding that the forces of physics clearly show planets have no influence on our lives you prop astrology up by saying there are forces we'll never discover.

    *****To me its the equivalent of a toddler plugging his ears, shutting his eyes and going singing "LA LA LA" in the face of reason.

    Meridians? Acupuncture? Anything else you wish to add, tinkerbell? Ley lines? UFO's? Sasquatch?
    LOL you really are scraping the barel, are you really saying that humanity can measure everything? that there will be no advances in science EVER, is it not possible that we simply havne't discovered the method to measure subtle impacts? As for me sticking my fingers in my ears, it's nto me making SWEEPING generalisations based on the current days limited abilities - it you that is doing that....

    The accupuncture things is simply saying the alought science CAN measure impact of accupuncture it can't say WHY it works. No shit!

    It makes me laugh to see people try and claim because it's not measurable it doesn't exisits, personaly I'm of the point of view, if we can't measure things it's because we've not discovered the ruler big enough to do the job, not that something nessesarily doesn't exist.

    Lets face it, the people who said the world was flat were right... were they not? after all the were living in a world where no one could PROVE the world wasn't flat, therefore LA LA LA it's Flat - RIGHT?

    Very amusing, knock yourself out, you are very funny,

    Lis

  10. #80
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    3,487

    Default

    Michel Gauquelin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Do Keep in mind Gauquelin was pre computers. I beleive we are now in a uneque time to do more mass market research with substantial sample sizes amd test basic premises like never before.

    Gauquelin, it is worth noting, was a statistician first and an astrologer second. He came to this experiment a skeptic and left with evidence. Yes it was challenged, but many beleive the challenges were not valid.

    Its interesting to me as an astrologer, that he find the power of the planet and not of the sign. I have found that in reading too. Planet had impact, the sign is the window dressing, altough it does help to colour the interpretation. He also found evidence of houses.... anothr thing my own experience has found. I'd order it like this

    Planets
    Angles
    Houses
    Aspects
    Signs

    Although I'm lazy about aspects, I know that if I did more work on this it may raise the impact somewhat.

    Enjoy picking apart... :P
    Lis

Similar Threads

  1. Seeing the world
    By targobelle in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 11-11-2015, 05:23 PM
  2. An INTP world
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 07-23-2012, 03:51 PM
  3. ENTP world
    By SolitaryWalker in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 12-24-2009, 01:44 AM
  4. I can control the world with the power of my mind...
    By The Ü™ in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 08:07 PM
  5. World-renowned violinist versus DC rush hour
    By sundowning in forum Arts & Entertainment
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-28-2007, 03:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO