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  1. #1
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Default Help my dad an ESTJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 :(:(:(

    Title says it all.
    I realised my dad was an ESTJ last night after reading the parent-child section of Please Understand Me ii (PUM 2).
    Last 6 months we have been at each others necks constantly and its doing my head in. My mum doesn't help much as he doesn't listen to her, although he seems to think he does. I think she is an SF of somesort and probably an J.

    Its hell and after reading PUM 2 i'm a touch worried since i leave home this summer and in the rational child guardian parent section it says that rationals often argue with SJs especially STJs and can often become estranged (is that the word) from STJs. I'm actually not bothered by it that much right now tbh but i know it will bother me in the future if it happens and right now its looking very likely.

    Help! Can anyone offer any advice to making things better or atleast making life torrable untill i leave?


    EDIT: If it helps at all most of the arguements starts getting worse since i became more extravated and discovered my Ne. He hates all my typical INTP jokes as well which have become more frequent since my Ne.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    I love how Ne is like a super-power in your story. It often seems like that to me too.

    I wish I could help more with the sitch. What kinds of things does your dad do that make life INtorrable?

  3. #3
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    I love how Ne is like a super-power in your story. It often seems like that to me too.

    I wish I could help more with the sitch. What kinds of things does your dad do that make life INtorrable?

    Well he askes me to do things and refuses to give me a reason to do it. Says things like "just do it" and "because thats the way it is". Likeone night my familly had macoroni cheese, something i won't eat as it makes feel ill, so i made my own food and did all my wasking and cleared my stuff all away. He then asked me to do all the dishes and i refused as i had done my share and had did them all the night before. He went absolutely mental literally shouting about how selfish and unthoughtfull i was. I tried to reason with him whick sent him off worse.
    He went on about how i never willingly do house work, which is true when other people are in but i do tidy up mess when in alone, and i asked "why would i willingly do a task i do not enjoy?". He didn't seem to understand that i could not willingly want to do an unenjoyable task saying "you belong to a familly so should do task willingly for your familly and you are intelligent so don't pretend you don't notice the mess". To be honest i don't notice the mess. He doesn't understand that while very thinking orientated i'm a very absent minded head up in the clouds person who doesn't notice mess - and when i do - i don't see it as a problem.

  4. #4
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    If you mean it literally when you say your dad goes "absolutely mental," then MBTI, Enneagram, Socionics, etc. probably can't help you much. There are bigger problems there.

    If you don't mean it quite so literally, then never mind me.
    Last edited by Cimarron; 01-19-2009 at 01:11 PM. Reason: missing a word
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
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    this is just a loosely fitting S strategy in general, so if people know an ESTJ or know more about it, they should expound...but you know what I wonder though? Would it be possible to present an N principle as an S pact?

    Like... "look I'll make you a deal. If you ALWAYS explain yourself, then I give you a guarantee that I will ALWAYS do what you ask accordingly. No explanation, nothing gets done."

    Now...there are SERIOUSLY freaky loopholes in this deal...but I mean, if you're moving out in a little bit, it might work as a temporary fix?

  6. #6
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    Title says it all.
    I realised my dad was an ESTJ last night after reading the parent-child section of Please Understand Me ii (PUM 2).
    Last 6 months we have been at each others necks constantly and its doing my head in. My mum doesn't help much as he doesn't listen to her, although he seems to think he does. I think she is an SF of somesort and probably an J.

    Its hell and after reading PUM 2 i'm a touch worried since i leave home this summer and in the rational child guardian parent section it says that rationals often argue with SJs especially STJs and can often become estranged (is that the word) from STJs. I'm actually not bothered by it that much right now tbh but i know it will bother me in the future if it happens and right now its looking very likely.

    Help! Can anyone offer any advice to making things better or atleast making life torrable untill i leave?


    EDIT: If it helps at all most of the arguements starts getting worse since i became more extravated and discovered my Ne. He hates all my typical INTP jokes as well which have become more frequent since my Ne.
    I pity you.

    My dad is an ISTJ. We don't share much when it comes to our views on life but we get on well enough.

    From my own experience and what I've heard ESTJs are pretty much the arch-nemesis of INTPs. The interesting thing about STJ vs NT interactions is the NT can often realise the value of the STJ's organisation/practicality, while the STJ can't recognise the value of the NT's rational. At least, that is what I've found.
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  7. #7
    HUZZAH! Bougal's Avatar
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    Just shut your mouth and do what they say, and find a method to vent. That's all you can do. If you confront them with the problem, then they will fly off the handle, and the relationship will become even more strained. My mom is a very very unhealthy and disgruntled ESFJ, so I have the same problem. Her clean home is her pride and joy, and she is a stay at home wife, so it is her only task. I am exactly the same way with the inability to not see a mess. I just walk right past it, and she always asks me why I don't clean it when I see it. In the past when I have confronted her she has thrown hairdryers and brushes at my head (these confrontations tend to take place in a bathroom for some reason) and than she cries and doesn't talk to me for days. Sorry to be brash, but I have tried to fix my relationship with my mother, and it just does not work. I hope someone else can offer you something more useful.


    Ne > Ni > Ti > Fi > Te> Fe > Se > Si

  8. #8
    HUZZAH! Bougal's Avatar
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    Just be sure not to pity yourself. It can be hard, and you can get lost in negative emotions, but just shut them off when they come up. Try to continue to develop positively even though you have a strained relationship with one of your parents. And I have found that introspection helps a lot in these situations. And remeber, no one is the enemy, you just have different priorities and communication styles. Don't victimize yourself.


    Ne > Ni > Ti > Fi > Te> Fe > Se > Si

  9. #9
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    This is what I see happening. Fairly recently you discovered typology and have fallen into the same trap most people, including myself, do: you see your conflict as a challenge to your whole being and nature. You read NT as being preoccupied with thoughts and not concerned with organization and external appearance, and your see your fatherís demands that you be as a challenge to your NT side, and your freedom. You see this NT aspect as being something permanent, as well as something that justifies behavior that flows from this NTness. So, a simple (and pretty reasonable) request that you keep the common areas tidy mushrooms into a massive existential dilemma. ďHow the hell can I be myself and clean the living room simultaneously?Ē I appreciate that situation because I found myself in it a lot, especially when I first discovered typology and I imagine a lot of other people see it that way too. I also appreciate the need and search for authenticity, as I think itís one of the most valuable quests on which a person can embark.

    I also see a difference between narcissism and authenticity. Being authentic means finding out what you really feel and what you really value and expressing that in deep ways. If youíre passionate about helping others, quitting your job your parents planned for you and participating in humanitarian efforts is an example of authentic living. Choosing not to clean the living room because you are not a tidy person falls more within the realm of narcissism, as if to say ďif I donít naturally want to do it, I canít be bothered.Ē The difference is not just in the depth of the problem, but in the quality of experience. Refusing to clean: neurotic and narcissistic; refusing to work in something that conflicts with your deeply held values about morality: priceless freeing and beautiful. Giving up this narcissism isnít the same as giving up being authentic, even though it may appear that way on the surface.

    Iíd suggest you bite the bullet and submit to your dadís requests with dignity. You can still be yourself in a deep way even if you compromise on little things. It might suck, but itís part of cohabitation, and you do it because it pays off in the end: a satisfying relationship with your father, something lots of people donít have. I would also suggest you consider that your type is a rough classification of your personality, not something that cannot be added to or changed or balanced. Next time you talk to your dad, try talking to him like an adult rather than ďhis kidĒ and see how he responds. I think itíll help you earn some of the respect and recognition youíre looking for deep down.

    Good luck!

    P.S. My dad is an ISTJ. It's not always pretty and we went through some tough times, but we now work together and have found some areas of life we both enjoy and have formed a sort of partnership.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
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    It's a relationship held down by a string. What I learned is that it is usually better in the long run to cut the string rather than try to balance on it.

    Apathy my dear friend. That is the answer.

    If he yells at you, ignore him.
    If he demands something unreasonable, tell him why it's unreasonable and ignore the request.

    If he stops talking to you, good. Less trouble.

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