User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 47

  1. #21
    HUZZAH! Bougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    708

    Default

    All you need to do is be civil, and he is not making excuses because his father is hitting him. This is a small problem that he is asking for help how to manage, and it is manageable. Don't cut off your hand because you have a hang nail.


    Ne > Ni > Ti > Fi > Te> Fe > Se > Si

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    197

    Default

    big thing with an ESTJ flipping out on you, if I recall correctly, is the words "calm" and "down" used in conjunction and repeated as many times as necessary. I mean that got me past the initial yelling, I couldn't tell you how to actually SOLVE their given problem. Lord knows I've tried!

  3. #23
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougal View Post
    You are missing the point bud. I am not abused. I don't know how much real world experience you have, but you can burn bridges because someone yells at you, or makes you clean something. It's part of growing up and maturing. And if it were with someone I was dating I wouldn't even be in the relationship in the first place. You can't divorce your family, so you might as well do all you can to get along.
    To me, as a third person viewer, I have no definite answer on your family relationship, but basing my opinion on the information presented here. I would consider you to be in an abusive relationship, family or not.

    A family is not holy, one does not choose ones family. You can be a family member of someone you are proud of, you can also be a family member of someone who you find horrendous at best. A blood relationship is no different than any other intimate relationship. They can be as easily cut as any other, and if it's an abusive one, it should be.

    Hope is a funny thing in this world, it is something most people seek blindly, yet it is also something that comes with the highest price of them all. The price of having control over ones life.




    What you're basically saying is:
    "Suck it up and tolerate it,
    Suck it up and tolerate it,
    Suck it up and tolerate it,
    ad infinitum."

    How the fuck is this not an abusive relationship?

  4. #24
    HUZZAH! Bougal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Posts
    708

    Default

    Yes, hope in a very poor situation comes at the price of control, but we are taking about washing the dishes here. You are speaking in absolutes, so stop it. The relationship is not that bad.


    Ne > Ni > Ti > Fi > Te> Fe > Se > Si

  5. #25
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougal View Post
    Yes, hope in a very poor situation comes at the price of control, but we are taking about washing the dishes here. You are speaking in absolutes, so stop it. The relationship is not that bad.
    If everything came down to "just dishes", he wouldn't have made this topic.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Hendo Barbarosa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    197

    Default

    plus Darjur, think about it, even though coming to an online forum in the hopes that people on the internet might know your dad better than you may SEEM like a worthless prospect, but look at the intention: CJ99 just wants to make sure when he/she departs for school, that there isn't like a wedge permanently fitted in their relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    ...in the rational child guardian parent section it says that rationals often argue with SJs especially STJs and can often become estranged (is that the word) from STJs. I'm actually not bothered by it that much right now tbh but i know it will bother me in the future if it happens and right now its looking very likely
    So, in that case I'd take the advice of Bougal, and keep a stiff upper lip during even the most infuriating of conclusions in a debate.

    Honestly though Darjur, I think your "string cut" is the best way. My folks and I will never be able to agree on, for instance, religion, so I kind of did a quasi cut by moving so far away we never really have to have a talk or get emotional about it to begin with. This cut string essentially saved my life, in the very least my sanity. What I cut from them was my mental time and energy spent arguing. What I didn't cut, however, was the fact that I still care about them. I dunno, maybe it's not that easy with everyone, but I think a little of both philosophies is healthiest.

  7. #27
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bougal View Post
    All you need to do is be civil, and he is not making excuses because his father is hitting him. This is a small problem that he is asking for help how to manage, and it is manageable. Don't cut off your hand because you have a hang nail.

    When did i say he hit me?

    And its more than just dishes that was just a clear example of how he doesn't like my logic.
    Its many things, the main one being religion - he is a devout roman catholic whereas i'm an atheistic agnostic. He hates it hen i try to get him to justify his religion and won't admit that you can't. And when i disagree with him because of religion and its lack of logic he takes it very personaly.

    Tbh i don't think just taking his crap will help and i don't want to "cut the string". I'm looking for some advice to restructure the relationship so we understand each other. Personally i think i have an OK understanding of him but he has no understanding of me which is part of the problem so really i want advice as to how to help him understand me better.

  8. #28
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    582

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    This is what I see happening. Fairly recently you discovered typology and have fallen into the same trap most people, including myself, do: you see your conflict as a challenge to your whole being and nature. You read NT as being preoccupied with thoughts and not concerned with organization and external appearance, and your see your fatherís demands that you be as a challenge to your NT side, and your freedom. You see this NT aspect as being something permanent, as well as something that justifies behavior that flows from this NTness. So, a simple (and pretty reasonable) request that you keep the common areas tidy mushrooms into a massive existential dilemma. ďHow the hell can I be myself and clean the living room simultaneously?Ē I appreciate that situation because I found myself in it a lot, especially when I first discovered typology and I imagine a lot of other people see it that way too. I also appreciate the need and search for authenticity, as I think itís one of the most valuable quests on which a person can embark.

    I also see a difference between narcissism and authenticity. Being authentic means finding out what you really feel and what you really value and expressing that in deep ways. If youíre passionate about helping others, quitting your job your parents planned for you and participating in humanitarian efforts is an example of authentic living. Choosing not to clean the living room because you are not a tidy person falls more within the realm of narcissism, as if to say ďif I donít naturally want to do it, I canít be bothered.Ē The difference is not just in the depth of the problem, but in the quality of experience. Refusing to clean: neurotic and narcissistic; refusing to work in something that conflicts with your deeply held values about morality: priceless freeing and beautiful. Giving up this narcissism isnít the same as giving up being authentic, even though it may appear that way on the surface.

    Iíd suggest you bite the bullet and submit to your dadís requests with dignity. You can still be yourself in a deep way even if you compromise on little things. It might suck, but itís part of cohabitation, and you do it because it pays off in the end: a satisfying relationship with your father, something lots of people donít have. I would also suggest you consider that your type is a rough classification of your personality, not something that cannot be added to or changed or balanced. Next time you talk to your dad, try talking to him like an adult rather than ďhis kidĒ and see how he responds. I think itíll help you earn some of the respect and recognition youíre looking for deep down.

    Good luck!

    P.S. My dad is an ISTJ. It's not always pretty and we went through some tough times, but we now work together and have found some areas of life we both enjoy and have formed a sort of partnership.
    You have a point i think. I may be pushing what i see as the way i am to the more extreme ends but i think i do that to try and make him see how i think. So the question is how to make him understand me and the way i am better without pushing my character to the extremes.

    The thing about being adult is a problem though. I already talk to him like an adult as being a "kid" doesn't really suit me. But he talk tos me in a very "subordinate" way (is that the term?). He hates it when i try talk to him as if i am any other adult and seems to try and put on an image of himself as the "parent", taking criticism very badly.

    Thank You that is helpful though.

  9. #29
    Is Willard in Footloose!! CJ99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendo Barbarosa View Post
    Honestly though Darjur, I think your "string cut" is the best way. My folks and I will never be able to agree on, for instance, religion, so I kind of did a quasi cut by moving so far away we never really have to have a talk or get emotional about it to begin with. This cut string essentially saved my life, in the very least my sanity. What I cut from them was my mental time and energy spent arguing. What I didn't cut, however, was the fact that I still care about them. I dunno, maybe it's not that easy with everyone, but I think a little of both philosophies is healthiest.
    How did you go about cutting the string though without cutting all the relationship?
    See the thing is right now i don't really have much of a relationship with him.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Darjur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ99 View Post
    When did i say he hit me?

    And its more than just dishes that was just a clear example of how he doesn't like my logic.
    Its many things, the main one being religion - he is a devout roman catholic whereas i'm an atheistic agnostic. He hates it hen i try to get him to justify his religion and won't admit that you can't. And when i disagree with him because of religion and its lack of logic he takes it very personaly.

    Tbh i don't think just taking his crap will help and i don't want to "cut the string". I'm looking for some advice to restructure the relationship so we understand each other. Personally i think i have an OK understanding of him but he has no understanding of me which is part of the problem so really i want advice as to how to help him understand me better.
    It's basically a battle of wills. Either one of you gives up or nothing happens.
    You can either win him over or acknowledge defeat.


    Personally thought, I'd still suggest cutting the ties. Too much hassle for what's it's worth, stuff like this tends to set itself right after you are out of each others eyesight for a few years anyway.

Similar Threads

  1. Is my Dad an INTJ or INTP?
    By Kenneth Almighty in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-05-2009, 03:12 PM
  2. Is My Dad an INFP or ISTJ?
    By Ginkgo in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 11-20-2009, 06:46 PM
  3. [MBTItm] Help! ENTP with an ESTJ boss
    By Sachetan in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 11-20-2009, 12:47 AM
  4. [ENFP] Was my dad an ENFP or ISFP??
    By BookLady in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 10:15 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO