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  1. #41
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    I pick up accents unconciously and quickly, likewise mannerisms. It's a mirror, but without empathy (empathy needs more concious thought behind it, IME). It was actually the chameleon part of the INTP description that really grabbed my attention when I first read it a couple of years ago.

    I've also noticed I chameleon much less if I really don't like someone.

    I don't particularly chameleon on here or INTPc. The written word is quite a different experience to talking to someone face to face.
    Indeed, it is not empathic. I don't actually know what the other person thinks or feels and I honestly don't care most of the time. The immitation is just a mechanism for getting by in my case.

    Something I think is worth noting is that I also do not mimic people that I dislike, but if I become close to someone, and really, really like them, that also makes me stop mimicking. There's some kind of middle range of liking and familiarity where I mimic.

    I also do not mimic at all online. I neither do it willfully nor impulsively. However, I think that's because I find more ease and security in talking online anyway. Online, I don't do my alternative mode of behavior either. I'm very different here.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Having read the thread a bit, i'm thinking it's curious to see the word "survival" connected to the mimicking skill or practice. I can see why that can be the case sometimes, but it's interesting to me, being of one of the arch-chameleon types, to think of it, cos it's not really in my mind when I'm doing it. I'm trying to find a way to translate or transpose my real self, my real opinions, into a "key" that matches what the other person is "playing", if you will, so we can harmonize better, to reduce misunderstandings that come from operating on different wavelengths and ease communication.

    For example, if I'm with some of my more rough-around-the-edges friends, I'm not going to use long words, I might speak with a coarser accent, drop H's and T's more, use words like "ain't" that I wouldn't really use to myself except tongue in cheek or as part of a linguistic idiom. My analogies will be drawn from popular culture and the sorts of things I know the people present will relate to. It's not done to fool anyone and it's not done to patronize or hide my real self or survive or anything. It's just because I know that there's no reason why I can't get on with these people, I respect them and see them as good people, but I know that if I go in there all cultured and educated and whatever, THEY will have difficulty relating to me and will misunderstand a lot of what I say, and therefore misunderstand what I'm all about. So I'm expressing just the same concepts, feelings, opinions and worldview as I do to myself in my own private journal, but using a different "language" to do it.

    As time goes by and these people get used to me and come to accept and trust me, I might gradually reduce the amount that I transpose myself, and over a period of time let slip more and more of what they see as my educated/refined side, and thereby begin to erode the prejudices they had against such people which were why I translated myself in the first place. Then i start to hear things like "well, they're not all snotty and pretentious, our mate Sub is educated and all that but he comes for a pint with the rest of us and he's a good laugh".

    Basically, I'm NOT faking. I see it as equivalent to switching languages when you're in another country.
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  3. #43
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    You have to consider that you presumably care more about socializing with these people not only as a means, but as an end, more than your typical INTP will.

    Socializing for me is generally a necessary evil. I learn ways to get through it efficiently.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You have to consider that you presumably care more about socializing with these people not only as a means, but as an end, more than your typical INTP will.
    Kinda... but I'm not an F - I don't really care about these people, I'm just tapping them for information to feed my rabidly curious brain! They give more information when they like you

    (mwuhahaha!)

    Socializing for me is generally a necessary evil. I learn ways to get through it efficiently.
    I always find that weird with INTP's in particular. I mean, in particular of the introverts. You're meant to be the ones in relentless pursuit of knowledge, right? Well, people know stuff, and they don't always write it down in books, and sometimes the ones who do write things in books are wrong, cos they didn't talk to other people who knew stuff that proved their book wrong. People and society... HUGE goldmine of knowledge out there, irreplacable and hugely complimentary to the book stuff. In fact, renders the book stuff meaningful and corrects it.

    So, like, I'd have thought an INTP would be more motivated to socialize than other I's, and to see more of the good potential in it than the other IT's...
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  5. #45
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Methinks you're reading the wrong books.



  6. #46
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Mimicking? I tend to act like everyone else in a social situation just enough so that I am not noticed. This works fine if it's with people I don't see all that often, but if it's with people in school that I know well and see often, or with my family, I become conscious of the contradictory behavior that they are probably observing, and then I'm all screwed up and don't know how to act.

    For instance, if I'm going to a gathering where there won't be alot of people that I know, I am perfectly comfortable acting like them and mirroring their behavior. I do it naturally. However, if I have to go to a gathering that is large, but with a lot of people that I know well (and a lot of people that I don't know well), I get confused and anxious, and I tend to go hide somewhere. I simultaneously don't want to be seen either by those I know as "putting on an act for people", OR as my true self, since that would be making me too vulnerable around strangers.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  7. #47
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Cypocalypse;498991]The chameleon INTP is basically a state in which the P function of an INTP "listens" to the merits of another person's statements, in order to seek information from it, basically characterized by the inhibition of the Ti's assertion.

    To INTPs, this can be interpreted as their empathic function.

    _________

    A few days ago, I was reading here an INTP description posted by an INTP member, and he says something like...

    "An INTP can simulate any personality of various archetypes, none of which is legitimately his."

    I was wondering if this somehow has parallels with the chameleon description.

    To be honest, I think if you jack up an INTPs Ti, he'll end up like Bluewing (no sarcasm intended).

    The last time I took an MBTI test, I still showed up an INTP though the dichotomy of my I/E and T/F are really close. All are close to 50% and only the N and P are at a glaring advantage.

    Assuming that the results have validity, I'm probably close to any of these four: ENTP, INTP, INFP, and ENFP at any point.

    Well, that's because out of the four archetypes, I'm less likely to find an INTP, in real life. The xNFPs (or Js) are much easier to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    Does any INTP here feel the lack to environmental conduciveness to refine the Ti function? I know that even in solitude, it can be refined, but how does external pressure fare up?

    What does it mean to act like a chameleon? It means to be able to take on the image of any kind of social behavior.

    How does an INTP do this? Ne is basically abstract perception, thus it can project outwards many images it perceives, as such perception is externally aimed.

    An INTP is also detached or separated from his feelings with regard to how he should interact with the external environment. (Separated from Fe). Thus, it is easy for him to take on any image he thinks is desirable to take on. By virtue of Ti the INTP is able to carefully think through what image he needs to put on.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    We have established that Ne is very instrumental in the INTP's chameleon-like behavior. However, Ti plays an important role as well. Ti silences the irrational value judgments the INTP would be tempted to make about how he should behave (Fe), and thus enables him to do whatever he thinks is the most conducive to maintaining the proper image. Ti also carefully constructs a plan that is necessary in order to accomplish the task of establishing the proper image. This last activity that I have mentioned is very important because this emphasizes knowing specifically what you need to do in order to achieve the successful completion of the task. In almost all cases, knowing how to achieve the successful completion of the task is the most important aspect of the entire endeavor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cypocalypse View Post
    Does any INTP here feel the lack to environmental conduciveness to refine the Ti function? I know that even in solitude, it can be refined, but how does external pressure fare up?
    In order to cultivate Ti, one must engage in activities that require careful contemplation of complex ideas. These activities are best performed in solitude, for this reason interaction with the community must be minimized. The only clear-cut instance where interaction with the community conduces to cultivation of Ti is the following; interaction with a group of individuals who are highly skilled thinkers and are comitted to discussing complex ideas. Such communities are most easily discovered in Univesity campuses where dedicated scholars have the liberty to discuss with each other freely about the topics of their intellectual interest.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  8. #48
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    I don't do this.
    In fact I've noticed it usually falls to me to set the tone in my interactions with others. They seem to feed off my energy level/mood. I'm not easily influenced, I don't think. And I don't mind standing out. I'm kind of used to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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  9. #49
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluemonday View Post
    I don't do this.
    In fact I've noticed it usually falls to me to set the tone in my interactions with others. They seem to feed off my energy level/mood. I'm not easily influenced, I don't think. And I don't mind standing out. I'm kind of used to it.
    This is an interesting point. INTPs are not easily influenced by others because they tend to have a clear idea of who they are and are detached from emotion. Fs often mimic others because they dont know who they are, (as they have not thought through such a matter) and are easily emotionally influenced.

    Most chameleons excell at such an activity by mimicking others, as most typically in noted in the behavior of EFs. INTPs, on the other hands excell at this activity by clearly different means.


    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    The phenomena that you call chameleoning, that Cypocalypse described in the OP as



    has a social psychology counterpart. You know, the legitimate stuff that MBTI tries to explain and fails at. The social psychological equivalent of being a "chameleon" is called self-monitoring. Self-monitoring is being highly attuned to social situations and moderating your behavior and the image you present to others based on your observations. Mostly everyone self-monitors. It's not better to be a high self-monitorer or a low self-monitorer because each group has pros and cons associoated with it. Most people fall in the middle. High self monitorers are quicker to pick up on social cues and react accordingly and to others expectations. High self-monitorers also tend to be good liars and manipulators, able to project emotions that they don't feel on a more consistent basis than average and low self-monitorers.

    OK, so I have this forum full of INTPs, another forum full of INTPs, and INTPs I personally know. One of the most consistent things I've noticed with INTPs--not all of course, never all of anything, but yeah usually I can bank on some of this stuff--is that they aren't very high self-monitorers. This is why so many INTPs are frustrated with their social interactions. Because, and perhaps this is their inferior Fe, the social function, they aren't as quick to notice and react. So no, I don't see how INTPs in general are these super chameleons or do some chameleoning above and beyond what the average person does. I don't see INTPs in general taking great pains to create or preserve an image of themselves for others to see. This is what I consider chameleoning and it does not correlate to that chameleon behavior mentioned in the OP.

    If this is just a matter of us having different definitions of what a chameleon is, then what's your definition? I've explained mine and if it's significantly different from yours then maybe we're talking about apples and staplers, which is fine. I'm about reaching an understanding and I'm not out to prove you wrong. .



    The question here is not about whether or not INTPs engage in chameleon-like behavior, but about whether or not they have an ability to do so. It may be urged that INTPs do not engage often in chamelen-like behavior because doing so requires Fe work. They lack motivation to do such work. However, as I have explained in post 47, the INTP type offers a number of talents one needs in order to acquire skills to be employed in engaging in chameleon-like behavior.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #50
    Summer laintpe's Avatar
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    I've definitely done this. My first roommate had a drawn out, "I am so stoned" voice, and I started talking like her.... I could have done without that. My friend was in the room and when we left he commented on how stupid I sounded imitating her. Going back to some of the earlier posts on this thread, I also have done the accent thing. In sixth grade people I had known since I was 5 asked me if I was from England. I won't explain why I had the slight accent for several months- you will all make fun of me. In some instances I find the chameleon trait really annoying. When I'm around girls who are really gossipy... well, ok, the best example I can think of is Mean Girls (sorry). Anyway, I'll put on this really dumb sounding voice, talk about nothing of significance, and completely join in the conversation without thinking to myself, "This is a little more than mildly pathetic".... that is, until after I've left. Then I'm completely disgusted with myself. That is just one example, but 3/4 times after I walk away from a conversation I find myself thinking, "What were you doing?".... blah. Maybe that is why I'm so silent now.

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