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  1. #31
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eirhead View Post
    I can fake sensing, feeling and extroversion. Essentially, you create a persona for yourself beforehand, commit your mind to it, quit thinking and go. Visibly people see you more as an ESF. Obviously my sensing abilities will never match those of a person who natively possesses it, but it's only a matter of outward appearance, not actual functionality.

    As soon as it comes to dealing with people who know you and can read you, toss it out the window. Real friends will detect your insincerity. That's the thing...
    This is a bit different. I'd consider this projecting. You're determining a behaviour and personality ruleset before perceiving the social landscape you're heading into.

    I find this very hard to do. Which is why I find it easier to just mirror somebody else.



  2. #32
    Senior Member Willfrey's Avatar
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    If it weren't for mimicry I don't know how I'd survive in the social arena. I do it constantly with most everybody, though the longer I know people the less and less I mimic. It helps protect me from uncomfortable situations, or helps me get out of those situations.
    ...Then I ducked my head and the lights went out, and two guns blazed in the dark;
    And a woman screamed, and the lights went up, and two men lay stiff and stark...

  3. #33
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    Mimicking and chameleoning are effects of being high self-monitors. Don't delude yourselves INTPs, you are not high self-monitors and you don't mirror people well. Your cheese and whine wouldn't be as delicious if you were. Watch your ExTP brothers for other TP examples, or ExFJs for FJ examples.
    Some of us are. I've always been a very high self-monitor, to the point where I annoy myself. I don't think you can decide that all INTPs don't have the skillz to mimic based on a few people in an office situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix
    Cypocalypse, in my observations and interactions with INTPs, I know what you're getting at but I don't think it is what you think it is. I notice that the handful of INTPs at my job give off an easygoing vibe but it's not necessarily because they're "chameleoning" anyone. Like other IPs they insist upon being persistently themselves. It's more or less just being quiet and not creating an image and allowing people to form whatever impressions of them they want, allowing people to project images onto them which can be positive, negative, or neutral. When I think of chameleoning I think of actively creating an image or persona of yourself that you want people to have in their heads or believe you to be. Mimicking another person is even harder because you have to be paying close enough attention to the other person to pick up their habits and mannerisms, even temporarily. I don't see INTPs noticing or that attuned to other people that closely to mimic them.
    That's just it, though--when I mimic, I'm observing behaviors, mannerisms, tone of voice, what people respond to. I'm not being attuned in any sort of "connection" type way that would be more NF-like. It's merely an INTP defense mechanism. By mimicking others' ways of operating, we're able to ingratiate ourselves without having to make the interaction too deep. People see in us what they want to see. Though I don't do the defense mechanism thing as much if I really like the person and feel we have a lot in common. It's true that some INTPs aren't self-monitoring enough to be skilled at chameleoning. And then, some of them aren't really INTPs, either. I guarantee you I read far more E and S in social situations, just because I don't want to stand out. Edit: And sometimes because it's a group of introverts, and I can't stand just sitting around staring at each other if we all have to be there for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP Profile Thing Jock Quoted
    INTPs dislike making the first move and tend to mirror the emotional content of the other person. A jolly person will quickly bring the INTP out of his shell, as much as that is possible, while a serious person will find a serious INTP looking back at him. In this sense, INTPs preference for intuitive perception (rather than action) with respect to people results in them resembling a chameleon. The INTP can fit into many different modes of behaviour, even contradictory ones, in order to get into the mindset of the other person. The goal is to gain enough intuitive data to analyse and assess the person. In doing this, the INTP remains somewhat reserved, never wholly identifying himself with his surroundings. As chameleons, INTPs are therefore approachable and open, unless the Ne tells the INTP that the other person is a type he doesn't like, in which case the reserved attitude may become too obvious. The chameleon behaviour can be particularly strong when discussing something. The INTP may even argue something that he doesn't really believe himself. Sometimes it is for the intellectual stimulation that comes with the challenge of arguing from a variety of standpoints. Otherwise, it may be to avoid early conflict before the situation has been fully assessed. Chameleons hide their true selves. INTPs do not do this cynically, or indeed all the time, but it is a result of the strong desire to remain detached and observe.
    I identify with all of this, and the bolded part is the other way that chameleoning manifests in my personality. Depending on the situation, I'll a) mimic so as not to call attention to myself, b) detach and observe, not committing or c) let someone think whatever they like about me, not bothering to correct them, knowing that our interaction will be limited and it doesn't matter, anyway.

    All of this rings very true for me.
    Something Witty

  4. #34
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    So basically, you disagree because you have a different definition of what a social chameleon is. And it is wrong. Chameleons as a species do not "project an image and display it outward to the world," they respond to their surroundings. Which is exactly what you said INTPs do.
    The phenomena that you call chameleoning, that Cypocalypse described in the OP as

    "An INTP can simulate any personality of various archetypes, none of which is legitimately his."
    has a social psychology counterpart. You know, the legitimate stuff that MBTI tries to explain and fails at. The social psychological equivalent of being a "chameleon" is called self-monitoring. Self-monitoring is being highly attuned to social situations and moderating your behavior and the image you present to others based on your observations. Mostly everyone self-monitors. It's not better to be a high self-monitorer or a low self-monitorer because each group has pros and cons associoated with it. Most people fall in the middle. High self monitorers are quicker to pick up on social cues and react accordingly and to others expectations. High self-monitorers also tend to be good liars and manipulators, able to project emotions that they don't feel on a more consistent basis than average and low self-monitorers.

    OK, so I have this forum full of INTPs, another forum full of INTPs, and INTPs I personally know. One of the most consistent things I've noticed with INTPs--not all of course, never all of anything, but yeah usually I can bank on some of this stuff--is that they aren't very high self-monitorers. This is why so many INTPs are frustrated with their social interactions. Because, and perhaps this is their inferior Fe, the social function, they aren't as quick to notice and react. So no, I don't see how INTPs in general are these super chameleons or do some chameleoning above and beyond what the average person does. I don't see INTPs in general taking great pains to create or preserve an image of themselves for others to see. This is what I consider chameleoning and it does not correlate to that chameleon behavior mentioned in the OP.

    If this is just a matter of us having different definitions of what a chameleon is, then what's your definition? I've explained mine and if it's significantly different from yours then maybe we're talking about apples and staplers, which is fine. I'm about reaching an understanding and I'm not out to prove you wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Additionally, I've never met an FJ who could compare with NP empathy. Especially proteanmix.
    I don't even feel like thinking of a response for this.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #35
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    OK, so I have this forum full of INTPs, another forum full of INTPs, and INTPs I personally know. One of the most consistent things I've noticed with INTPs--not all of course, never all of anything, but yeah usually I can bank on some of this stuff--is that they aren't very high self-monitorers. This is why so many INTPs are frustrated with their social interactions. Because, and perhaps this is their inferior Fe, the social function, they aren't as quick to notice and react. So no, I don't see how INTPs in general are these super chameleons or do some chameleoning above and beyond what the average person does. I don't see INTPs in general taking great pains to create or preserve an image of themselves for others to see. This is what I consider chameleoning and it does not correlate to that chameleon behavior mentioned in the OP.
    So from what I understand, you read the original post, read that the OP was wondering about the role of the Ti function and its development in a social context if INTPs just tend to mirror other types around him and the subjects are not Ts, and then you redefine what you think chameleon behavior is and basically tell us that INTPs are "deluded?" Am I wrong?

    And if we are using definitions, why are you bringing up your alternative definition, which you yourself state does not relate at all to what the original poster is talking about?

    My definition of chameleon behavior is to emulate the general behavior, language, and energy level of the subject in order to fit in and bring ourselves along that person's line of thinking, to better understand them.

    You seem to think it means projecting a preformed image to everyone else. That's not what it is.



  6. #36
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Chameleon, yup.. do that lots. It's not morphing though.. as underlined by other posters (though often in other contexts). I don't become their type, I simply adjust to how they seem to prefer to interact. INTPs are reknowned for being accepting of people as they are.. I think that this reflects the chameleon characteristic quite well.

    As for Ti stimulus, that's kind of why I'm on these forums. Most people don't appreciate direct Ti analysis. At least on here it has a small chance to blossom and find a home.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  7. #37
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    Yep. I do it constantly, mostly unconsciously. I really don't know how I'd adapt in social situations without doing it. It's very effective most of the time, but it's the reason why i don't like being in large groups, as I sometimes get confused about what behaviors to mirror :/ .

  8. #38
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yep. I do it constantly, mostly unconsciously. I really don't know how I'd adapt in social situations without doing it. It's very effective most of the time, but it's the reason why i don't like being in large groups, as I sometimes get confused about what behaviors to mirror :/ .
    I know exactly what you mean.

    The alternative I've attempted is to be more like myself, but extremely guarded. Unforunately, that one doesn't go over nearly as well with people.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #39
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    There's no question I take on many different personas. Not so sure I would call it Chameleon like behavor, though.

  10. #40
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    What Tallulah said, plus all of this (I do believe this is the first time I've ever agreed with Jack Flak):

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Do you act like them? Adopt their accents, speech patterns, mannerisms, expressions, apparent moods, and levels of effusiveness?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    It's like a subconscious desire to demonstrate no traits the other person doesn't have in order to blend in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Chameleon, yup.. do that lots. It's not morphing though.. as underlined by other posters (though often in other contexts). I don't become their type, I simply adjust to how they seem to prefer to interact. INTPs are reknowned for being accepting of people as they are.. I think that this reflects the chameleon characteristic quite well.

    As for Ti stimulus, that's kind of why I'm on these forums. Most people don't appreciate direct Ti analysis. At least on here it has a small chance to blossom and find a home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Yep. I do it constantly, mostly unconsciously. I really don't know how I'd adapt in social situations without doing it. It's very effective most of the time, but it's the reason why i don't like being in large groups, as I sometimes get confused about what behaviors to mirror :/ .
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I know exactly what you mean.

    The alternative I've attempted is to be more like myself, but extremely guarded. Unforunately, that one doesn't go over nearly as well with people.
    I suspect the bolded bits are at least some of the underlying reasons for doing this.

    I pick up accents unconciously and quickly, likewise mannerisms. It's a mirror, but without empathy (empathy needs more concious thought behind it, IME). It was actually the chameleon part of the INTP description that really grabbed my attention when I first read it a couple of years ago.

    I've also noticed I chameleon much less if I really don't like someone.

    I don't particularly chameleon on here or INTPc. The written word is quite a different experience to talking to someone face to face.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

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