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  1. #41
    Senior Member Accept's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    I'm debating, or trying . . . If you are saying chaos is just a name for something that is too complex to model directly at this moment in time, then I do agree.
    It would have been interesting, but apparently we are in close enough agreement to negate any value of such a debate. My comment was directed to those who seem to believe, and are willing to use chaos as a final answer, rather than one of the mysteries we don't yet, and may never understand. The type that validates their personal theory as an undisputed fact supported as one more part of chaos theory. They typically avoid any use of the word theory.

    Perhaps some future thread will allow us to debate from opposing viewpoints, which leaves one question for now: If we agree with the original quote to some degree, and it appears we do, can I credit it to middle age or is it an acceptable response for an INTP at any age?
    “Naked to unknown forces, fortune evades mere understanding. The trial of effort.
    The dream of change. Such a place might Hell be to thought and action.”
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #42
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Accept View Post
    It would have been interesting, but apparently we are in close enough agreement to negate any value of such a debate. My comment was directed to those who seem to believe, and are willing to use chaos as a final answer, rather than one of the mysteries we don't yet, and may never understand. The type that validates their personal theory as an undisputed fact supported as one more part of chaos theory. They typically avoid any use of the word theory.

    Perhaps some future thread will allow us to debate from opposing viewpoints, which leaves one question for now: If we agree with the original quote to some degree, and it appears we do, can I credit it to middle age or is it an acceptable response for an INTP at any age?
    I just want something interesting to debate, anything!!

  3. #43
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    My position is that the INTPs who think they're Ti dominant are wrong, as I was years ago when I believed it.
    I'd challenge you to prove that theory with myself bucko. I'm Ti all over the place and INTP fer sure.

    Perhaps you're dealing with more pretenders than you thought?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #44
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    perhaps when he's middle-aged?


    "…one increasingly feels the need for some kind of order among the chaotic multiplicity of points of view."
    Absolutely. It indicates a want to make sense of things, an awareness of the sheer chaos of possibilities. Both indicate a more P type perspective than a J. If it were J I'd expect more indication of need to organise and more displeasure at the refusal of things to sit in order.

    A search for truth is like a search for order, just order spreading from one central point. It's fallacy anyway to think that an INTP is disorganised. We're just not organised in an extraverted thinkers kind of way. Internally we make so much more sense.... I think
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    I'd challenge you to prove that theory with myself bucko. I'm Ti all over the place and INTP fer sure.
    I used to say that too, X.

  6. #46
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    My position is that the INTPs who think they're Ti dominant are wrong, as I was years ago when I believed it.
    What is with the generalization?... What makes us "wrong", and why?

    I have reason to believe that my Ti can be off the chart at times, and not because of what the MBTI says... Others have told me that I think quite a lot, and deeply... I'm always somewhere in my head problem solving.
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    What is with the generalization?... What makes us "wrong", and why?

    I have reason to believe that my Ti can be off the chart at times, and not because of what the MBTI says... Others have told me that I think quite a lot, and deeply... I'm always somewhere in my head problem solving.
    Misconception of what Ti is. Contemplation is just as easily Ni as Jung described it. The pop definitions aren't true to the originals. Shame.

  8. #48
    THREADKILLER Prototype's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Misconception of what Ti is. Contemplation is just as easily Ni as Jung described it. The pop definitions aren't true to the originals. Shame.
    Well, you said yourself, Jung is "too much of a wackjob". So, who is right, me or a wackjob?...

    Surely I know how my head works more then he does...
    ... They say that knowledge is free, and to truly acquire wisdom always comes with a price... Well then,... That will be $10, please!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demigod View Post
    Well, you said yourself, Jung is "too much of a wackjob". So, who is right, me or a wackjob?...
    It's one of several problems, isn't it. He invented the concepts, so he decides what they mean.

    When you appropriate Ti for the INTP, and redefine it to fit, you create problems both on principle (It's not Ti anymore) and execution (You're not explaining ISTPs equally well.) Knock it off.

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