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  1. #51
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    I sincerely appreciate the attempt at clarification, but this paragraph just made my head explode like the jury members on South Park after hearing Johnny Cochran's Chewbacca defense.
    INXJs take in information and produce rich theories of what it all means. They produce those theories for the purpose of perhaps one day doing something. Only they don't so often do something as they do go over the theory a few more times. If pressed, they'll produce advice. (We're not E's, our action is more often to advise than to do, to orchestrate rather than to enact...).

    Yes or No?

    INFJ focus is inside the people around them (those people's hearts and souls and the origin of their deeds.) INTJ focus is outside the people around them (those people's computers, their chairs, their military maneuvers).

    And there is a fine and fabulous distinction to be made between thinking and feeling. I don't know what it is, but there is one. Something like feeling is affective and thinking is... deductive?

    The distinction is obscured by no INXJ ever really using exactly only one function at a time. Dunno about INXPs. They may get away with it somehow. In any case, perhaps Thinking and Feeling are convenient labels for when one function is clearly the more controlling.

    I may be making this up.

  2. #52
    Senior Member Kollin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orangey View Post
    Um, who are you agreeing with exactly? Because if it's the OP, I think the bit in bold is precisely what the OP wished to get away from.
    I'm kind of agreeing with the opening post...But I'm confused though...is this supposed to be about gaining insight into ourselves or political ideologies?

    If that's what he's trying to get away from what exactly is he or she suggesting?
    AKA: Choss

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  3. #53
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kollin View Post
    I'm kind of agreeing with the opening post...But I'm confused though...is this supposed to be about gaining insight into ourselves or political ideologies?

    If that's what he's trying to get away from what exactly is he or she suggesting?
    Ehm...I got the impression that the OP was saying that the T/F dichotomy shouldn't be characterized as "serves others"/"serves self" because it is inaccurate. I then got the impression that you were agreeing with this very characterization. That led me to wonder (and subsequently question) why you thought you were agreeing with the OP. Here:

    What the OP says:

    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    There are those who take others into consideration and there are those who consider only themselves. But to call those who consider others feelers and those who consider themselves logical is an invalid inference.
    And here's what you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kollin View Post
    I agree with this. I think modern psychology has totally misunderstood the role of emotions in the way we, human beings think and feel.

    Maybe a better way to describe the difference is taking care of others vs taking care of yourself. We all know of people who do things because they consider other people's needs and feelings, then there are people who only worry about themselves and everyone else be damned.
    Totally opposite thoughts, yet you thought you were agreeing...And (s)he is suggesting that we stop using this as a legitimate way to distinguish between thinking and feeling. (S)he is also suggesting that the original reason that we currently think of thinking and feeling in this way is because of class based ideological domination.
    Artes, Scientia, Veritasiness

  4. #54
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provoker View Post
    I've thought on and off about the dichotomy between thinking and feeling for about five years now. My ideas on it have evolved over the years. Initially, I thought the thinking-feeling dichotomy was a good way to compartmentalize the way decisions are oriented by different people. Then, for a period of time I came to the conclusion that it's possible for there to be no dichotomy between thoughts and feelings--that a person could fall in love with an idea. More recently, a few ideas have emerged. First, that this "thinking-feeling" binary distinction is based on a gross oversimplification about the way people make decisions. Even the horribly stupid questions on the Myers-Briggs test like "do you make decisions with your head or heart?" is based on a fictitious dichotomy. No one makes decisions with their heart, all decisions stem from the brain. There are those who take others into consideration and there are those who consider only themselves. But to call those who consider others feelers and those who consider themselves logical is an invalid inference. Logic is only a system invented by and used for humans. If a basic assumption is that humans ought to pursue their own self-interest and maximize utility, as Adam Smith posits, then a person's logic should be oriented toward the self. If however we hold the basic assumption that decisions should be oriented around the self and the group (as John Nash posits) than the logic we employ will reflect this end goal which differs from Smith's.

    Then we get into the "why" of how logic came to be annexed with self-interest. And I'd argue it has evolved this way primarily due to the influence of the wealthy class. In this sense, the wealthy have brainwashed society into believing that the "Right" is logical and anyone who is on the progressive "Left" who's actually trying to put a little more food on the table or raise the minimum wage must be an illogical feeling type. Such fictitious lies don't square well with economic and social realities, and I am here to expose this myth.

    Thoughts?

    It is true that Thoughts and Feelings are intimately intertwined, however, from this it does not follow that there is no distinction between Thinking and Feeling.

    Thinking by definition is a tendency towards dispassionate contemplation and Feeling is a tendency towards processing of emotion. We do both when we engage with most activities, though clearly in some cases one of the two aspects is more emphasized than the other. For example, when we play a chess or solve a mathematical problem, Thinking is more emphasized than Feeling. When we read poetry or listen to music, Feeling is more emphasized than Thinking. In the first case, Feeling is part of the procedure because the person derives a positive sentiment from doing the proof. Thinking is part of the procedure in the second case because the person has a clear idea of the work of art he is enjoying. In order for him to enjoy poetry or a painting, he must have an understanding of what the poetry is saying on the basic level or what the painting portrays.
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  5. #55
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I feel, therefore I am.

    Thoughts, what are these thoughts that you speak of?

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  6. #56
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I feel, therefore I am.

    Thoughts, what are these thoughts that you speak of?

    You know, those things that get in the way every time of your feelings and make you doubt what you *feel* is the right course of action? Oh right, they're best dealt with by not acknowledging their existence, my bad
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You know, those things that get in the way every time of your feelings and make you doubt what you *feel* is the right course of action?
    Other feelings?

  8. #58
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Other feelings?
    *checks your type* Pff, like you would know what we're talking about..
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    *checks your type* Pff, like you would know what we're talking about..
    Care for a cup of T? *sips it*

  10. #60
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Care for a cup of T? *sips it*
    No thanks, I'm trying to cut down
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