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[NT] Who else has a horrible time in school?

JonJT

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Studying engineering at an Ivy league institution in the states, I'm having an increasingly hard time doing well. My grades are poor and I'm tittering between a B- and a C+ average which is in no way reflective of my abilities. It's to the point now that I'm worried I won't be able to get a job when I graduate. While my friends adjust well to the test based grading system my university uses, I can't seem to be consistent. I'll do well on the preliminary examinations and bomb the final exam and get a C in the class. It's quite depressing.

Any other NTs or specifically INTPs have difficulty with testing and/or just doing well as a student in higher level education?
 

JocktheMotie

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I agree with you. I don't get As all across the board, the only classes that I do are the ones in which there is significant freedom given to the student when it comes to preparing themselves for tests, or how lab work was done. I nearly failed orgo because I never followed the procedures, but made shortcuts and adjustments to make everything go faster.

Any type of weekly homework, organizational requirements, pre-lab work [preliminary write ups, etc] really hurt me because I find it unimportant and difficult to follow through on something so pointless and wasteful.
 

Risen

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Well, I'm only in a community college (though one of the best in the nation), and in a calculus class that is arguably more difficult than any UC class. The work load we get from this particular teacher is quite daunting at times, and not helped by the fact that I had to learn everything after Geometry on my own. The problem I had with the class (likely causing me to get a D...) was mainly time and energy constraints. Nothing is impossible for me to understand, it just took more time than I had to work through the work load and learn everything I needed for the tests. Often I would end up not fully learning what I needed until a week AFTER the tests, which did not help me in the least.

I know for most INTP's, time management is likely to be one of our biggest hurdles. You really have to learn how to manage your time effectively in college, or you will suffer along with your grades. I've arguably had to make a lot of social sacrifices this past semester just to be able to keep up with my work :/ . Glad I'm an I and not an E, lol.
 

Orangey

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Studying engineering at an Ivy league institution in the states, I'm having an increasingly hard time doing well. My grades are poor and I'm tittering between a B- and a C+ average which is in no way reflective of my abilities. It's to the point now that I'm worried I won't be able to get a job when I graduate. While my friends adjust well to the test based grading system my university uses, I can't seem to be consistent. I'll do well on the preliminary examinations and bomb the final exam and get a C in the class. It's quite depressing.

Any other NTs or specifically INTPs have difficulty with testing and/or just doing well as a student in higher level education?

When I first went to university (and not even at an Ivy league, congrats on that bit), I thought that I wanted to do computer science because it related to my interest (at the time) in video game creation. That lasted all of one semester, though, because I would bomb the end-of-term tests as well. I'd do fine on projects, quizzes, homework...but the cumulative tests just seemed to do me in most of the time. I'd usually end up with something like a B, when the majority of my work was A quality.

I really did not like classes that were all testing. So I quickly switched to humanities courses, where term research papers reign supreme...and which I could ace much better than tests. I haven't looked back.

Since I know that that's not generally a palatable option to most NTs, I don't really know what kind of advice to give you. Perhaps you should get a test-taking tutor?
 

BlahBlahNounBlah

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In high school, I was an A student. In college/university, I was an A student. But then I started getting bored, realized I had more fun and learned more just studying independently, and I dropped out.

I wish I had more of an attention span for things that don't interest me. But the moment I get bored with anything, life starts to feel like pulling a ship over a mountain. :doh:
 
G

garbage

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I do everything in my power to get that A, including shirking other areas of my life, and get pissed off and self-critical when I don't get it.

So.. no, I don't have problems in school..
 

JonJT

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Time management is the biggest issue for me. And as other people have said the only class I succeed in is the one where I am allowed significant freedom.

I'm not saying I'm doomed. I have almost 3 years FSAE experience and internship experience with a consulting firm specializing in power production. God willing, I COULD get a job with them but I'm really just worried that I won't have any options when I graduate. Hopefully I can get into the grad school AND do earn a good GPA in engineering management and aerospace. If all goes well, I won't have to put my poor undergrad GPA on my resume. It's just extremely frustrating to work hard and yet receive the same grades as those who are not smart enough to be where I am.

Ugh...........

As for tutors, I'd be really surprised if my school has any tutors specializing in test taking. Everyone just seems to think studying harder will solve all problems. As it is, I've become aloof and consumed by my work. Eh, hopefully someone will take pity on me and give me a job.
 

Darjur

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My average in this semester is 93%. I'm pretty happy about that.
 

Not_Me

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Don't worry. I've been an engineer for quite a while. Unless you want to get into a research position your marks are not that important, even for your first job. Creativity will often go much further than sheer academics. I have worked with Phd's who perform poorly when faced with simple problem solving tasks.

In the work world, you will not use most of what you learned. University simply gives you the background. 95% of what you need will be learned on the job. As long as you get your degree, you will be OK, as long as you don't graduate during a recession.
 

JonJT

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Don't worry. I've been an engineer for quite a while. Unless you want to get into a research position your marks are not that important, even for your first job. Creativity will often go much further than sheer academics. I have worked with Phd's who perform poorly when faced with simple problem solving tasks.

In the work world, you will not use most of what you learned. University simply gives you the background. 95% of what you need will be learned on the job. As long as you get your degree, you will be OK, as long as you don't graduate during a recession.

Well, being a junior I'll graduate in 2010. Obviously no one can completely predict the direction the economy will take in the next two years, but I'd say its pretty likely companies will still be feeling the effects of the recession. Not to mention the damage the US auto industry has endured in the last few years will effect the job market for a long time. Who knows how many engineers will lose their jobs before this is over.

Also, a number of the companies who recruit at my school maintain a strict 3.0 cutoff. This is the main reason why I'm worrying. They won't even give me a change to demonstrate my strengths or experience. I've seen kids get their resumes literally handed back to them. We'll see what happens I suppose.

Can I ask what company you work for?
 

Risen

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I think the outlook for engineers will be good, as it is a practical field (vs. psychology which might not go very far in the recession/depression). It's part of the reason I'm switching my focus onto electrical engineering as my major.
 

Not_Me

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I suspect that companies who are so particular about marks, might have a rigid and bureaucratic culture. They look good from the outside, but you become just another cog in the wheel. It could make you question your choice of career before your first year is up. Friends of mine who worked for really big companies often complain that they end up specializing in too narrow of an area and worry whether they have developed the skill sets to be employable anywhere else. In fact, one of the guys I'm working with has worked years at a megacompany, but had no opportunity to do design work. I didn't even know he was a design engineer when I first met him.

I prefer to keep my company anonymous so I don't end up accidentally offending anyone. But there's nothing unique about them.

One again, don't worry too much about your grades, as long as you pass. Your ability to sell yourself will count much more than anything else. Also, I find that most engineering managers are "S" types, so they will value experience above all else. Try to get some related work experience on your resume before you graduate. Do your uni offer a co-op program?
 

spirilis

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My time management is flat-out horrible. Causes me plenty of grief at work, too. However I can say my abilities in school were pretty good, always B-average but I was good at taking tests and such. Course I wasn't in an Ivy league school, I went to a community college and IMO it was not all that challenging to my abilities. Additionally time management wasn't as much of a concern back then 'cause I didn't have much of a social life at *all* and therefore had plenty of alone-time to study.
 

Not_Me

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The biggest threat to engineering (in North America) is outsourcing. Asia is rapidly gaining competency. The glut of talent will exert a downward pressure on salaries here. Be careful not to overspecialize.
 

spirilis

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I suspect that companies who are so particular about marks, might have a rigid and bureaucratic culture. They look good from the outside, but you become just another cog in the wheel. It could make you question your choice of career before your first year is up. Friends of mine who worked for really big companies often complain that they end up specializing in too narrow of an area and worry whether they have developed the skill sets to be employable anywhere else. In fact, one of the guys I'm working with has worked years at a megacompany, but had no opportunity to do design work. I didn't even know he was a design engineer when I first met him.

I have to echo this point and tell it from a unique perspective. I've worked at my company for ~6.5 years and have seen it go from a very cool dot-com/startup type of company to an increasingly regimented bureaucracy in the making (all a function of company size & revenue & us getting bought out), and I've watched my job responsibilities go from a very wide scope (which was possible 'cause we were smaller and weren't doing as much as we do now) to a more specialized role, where my biggest challenges include bumping against my horrible time management and having to dot my I's and cross my T's correctly, then finding out the 'correct' way changes 2 months later. That kind of crap.
 

JonJT

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I suspect that companies who are so particular about marks, might have a rigid and bureaucratic culture. They look good from the outside, but you become just another cog in the wheel. It could make you question your choice of career before your first year is up. Friends of mine who worked for really big companies often complain that they end up specializing in too narrow of an area and worry whether they have developed the skill sets to be employable anywhere else. In fact, one of the guys I'm working with has worked years at a megacompany, but had no opportunity to do design work. I didn't even know he was a design engineer when I first met him.

I prefer to keep my company anonymous so I don't end up accidentally offending anyone. But there's nothing unique about them.

One again, don't worry too much about your grades, as long as you pass. Your ability to sell yourself will count much more than anything else. Also, I find that most engineering managers are "S" types, so they will value experience above all else. Try to get some related work experience on your resume before you graduate. Do your uni offer a co-op program?

Well this is encouraging. I interned at a consulting firm specializing in power last summer and I'm going on 3 years participation in my schools FSAE team and I've designed a number of parts for the car. I'll probably be a team leader next year. So no Co-Op for me, internships and FSAE instead.
 

JonJT

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I think I'll focus more on medium to smaller companies where I'll have a greater probability to get face time with HR or management.
 
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