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  1. #41
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post

    Any other NTs or specifically INTPs have difficulty with testing and/or just doing well as a student in higher level education?
    I'm having a lot of difficulty with higher level education, but not with the testing part. I am just terrible with organization, time management, etc. I get to class late, turn in stuff late, don't turn in stuff at all... Even though I'm great at the tests, I am at a very bad start with college so far.

  2. #42
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Risen View Post
    Well, I'm only in a community college (though one of the best in the nation), and in a calculus class that is arguably more difficult than any UC class. The work load we get from this particular teacher is quite daunting at times, and not helped by the fact that I had to learn everything after Geometry on my own. The problem I had with the class (likely causing me to get a D...) was mainly time and energy constraints. Nothing is impossible for me to understand, it just took more time than I had to work through the work load and learn everything I needed for the tests. Often I would end up not fully learning what I needed until a week AFTER the tests, which did not help me in the least.

    I know for most INTP's, time management is likely to be one of our biggest hurdles. You really have to learn how to manage your time effectively in college, or you will suffer along with your grades. I've arguably had to make a lot of social sacrifices this past semester just to be able to keep up with my work :/ . Glad I'm an I and not an E, lol.
    This sounds a lot like me. I'm at a community college too. It takes me a long time for me to understand things but if I get the time I can understand very well.
    And yes, I am suffering along with my grades because I just don't get anything done on time

  3. #43
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    I picked a major I hate, will not ever use, and given that I've acknowledged this in my senior year, I will only keep as foundational knowledge and/or a last resort back-up. I have another plan in life, which is so far forging ahead beautifully.

    Hence, I'm only worrying about passing so that I graduate with my degrees. Getting a 4.0 will serve no further purpose for me.
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Hera's Avatar
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    I'm horrible at any kind of examination, horrible with organizing notes and thoughts or essays or life... I don't know how to be a good student without effort, and it's frustrating because I know I have what it takes but I seemingly don't. School isn't structured for people like me.

    I'm trying my hardest to suppress the urge to say "to hell with it all" and dropping out. I get in those moods every month I'm in school.

  5. #45
    Insert Snarky Quip Here Stigmata's Avatar
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    I've always been pretty horrible in terms of school not because of the lack of ability to grasp the material, but more so because procrastination(turning in assignments late/not at all), and because of general lack of motivation in regards to working toward a particular subject when it isn't what I'm interested in learning. It's not that I don't like learning, I just don't like being forced to do so. In school I would always be the person that would skip around various chapters of the text book during a lecture and read whatever caught my interest, as opposed to staying on the pace of the class, because the waiting period for the class to reach that point was boring in my opinion. Also, most institutionalized education only test you on your ability to retain and later regurgitation information, which I find to be extremely tedious and boring, rather than the ability to critically think and formulate an answer based on your own perception of what you've learned, which is where I would usually excel.

    Homework was always my Achilles heel, and most of the time I would only pass due to my ability to maintain decent test averages.

  6. #46
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    I really shouldn't get the grades I get considering the amount of effort I put in. Today I woke up at 4pm...my first class was at 9 am. Yes..it's that bad...and it's not like I went to bed particularly late either...it was around 1 am when I fell asleep...so I don't know...perhaps I was just really tired...

    But yeah...I'm done with my General Ed classes and I survived with an above average gpa...so now I'm just looking for upper level classes that I want to concern myself with...basically i need to choose a major...(I've had like 8 or so..)

    Hopefully I can get my major gpa to be something close to 4.0 so that I can get into grad school. I'm done with taking classes that I absolutely have to...and for the first time I can take any class that I want to.

    As for tips on how to survive... If I could go back and tell myself something on the first day I went to college...it would be this...

    "Just shut up...stop moaning...get good grades...wait a couple years...and then you'll be free to choose what you want to study. Think about what you actually want to study..because that's a much harder and important problem than the unfairness that is structured academia.."

    I would say the humanities are by far the easiest classes to pass. Skim a book...bs a paper...get an A. Rinse repeat. There are no wrong answers in the humanities...any opinion can be defended as valid lol... too bad those degrees don't pay out a lot...unless you go to grad school...in which case you have to stop bsing your papers and actually start reading the books...because they pay a lot more attention at that level...

  7. #47

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    I did really bad in high school and I think that was because I was educated below my level. We have three levels of education here, the lowest being average.

    Due to lack of interest in homework they put me in the middle one. I felt like I was surrounded by morons and everything we learned I got immediately. Nothing was really difficult. When I feel I won't really learn anything from doing homework, I won't do it. I skipped a lot of classes, got quite depressed and turned things in late or not at all. They made me do a year over again and then I realised going on this way wouldn't get me graduated. I studied and.. sort of did my best and graduated with an average 8/10.

    Now I have a diary to keep me from forgetting deliverables and homework, and it gives me a nice handle on how much time I have left before I have to turn something in. I can say I'm managing, timewise. Though I still procrastinate a lot.

    I put aside the idea that school is mentally challenging (because that was "the problem" back then). I just do it so I can get a nice piece of paper which will bring me somewhere in life. The mental challenge had to be done by myself. Whenever I feel the need to really think, I read a book on quantum mechanics, learn how to play guitar, steampunk my computer mouse or learn a bit of japanese. That's what keeps me happy nowadays. (and also what keeps me from skipping classes)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmata View Post
    Also, most institutionalized education only test you on your ability to retain and later regurgitation information, which I find to be extremely tedious and boring, rather than the ability to critically think and formulate an answer based on your own perception of what you've learned, which is where I would usually excel.
    I can relate to this. My teachers in high school always said to me that I could do better, because they knew I wasn't dumb. The problem was, I couldn't do better. I suck at reproducing, especially if I'm not motivated at all.

  8. #48
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    Default In which Jim talks about INTP/INTJs and Universities

    I've been reflecting on the type of learning experiences that INTJs and INTPs seem to have at universities.

    To reflect, I, in fairly pragmatic INTJ fashion did not turn up for half of the lectures. Did not take notes and crammed some studying into the month before exams for 5 years. I've got a top grade masters in Chemical Engineering.

    I remember my xSFJ mum going mental because 'I wasn't studying'. In return I was like: look, the proof is in the grades, do you really think I don't know what I'm doing? I did not change my habits and it all worked out just fine. This seemed to be something quite foreign and abhorent to the Fe-Ti mindset and I wonder how that translates into the Ti dominant mindset.

    Reflecting my INTP friends, they were either a) constantly studying their butts off b) not studying and failing (often catastrophically).

    I think its important that INTPs consider if they are willing to truly commit to level of studying they require to make the grade they require to know if it is a worthwhile process - they really don't have the same cognitive way of 'picking up what's in front of them' and then throwing the chicken bones to produce an acceptable solution that allows INTJs to breeze through academia by balancing effort versus free time to optimize grade.

    I'm not sure how ENTJs and ENTPs fit into this.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mephistopheles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I've been reflecting on the type of learning experiences that INTJs and INTPs seem to have at universities.

    To reflect, I, in fairly pragmatic INTJ fashion did not turn up for half of the lectures. Did not take notes and crammed some studying into the month before exams for 5 years. I've got a top grade masters in Chemical Engineering.

    I remember my xSFJ mum going mental because 'I wasn't studying'. In return I was like: look, the proof is in the grades, do you really think I don't know what I'm doing? I did not change my habits and it all worked out just fine. This seemed to be something quite foreign and abhorent to the Fe-Ti mindset and I wonder how that translates into the Ti dominant mindset.

    Reflecting my INTP friends, they were either a) constantly studying their butts off b) not studying and failing (often catastrophically).

    I think its important that INTPs consider if they are willing to truly commit to level of studying they require to make the grade they require to know if it is a worthwhile process - they really don't have the same cognitive way of 'picking up what's in front of them' and then throwing the chicken bones to produce an acceptable solution that allows INTJs to breeze through academia by balancing effort versus free time to optimize grade.

    I'm not sure how ENTJs and ENTPs fit into this.
    I'd guess one important difference is that INTPs often want to know things for the sake of knowing if they're interested, so what you call "learning their butts of" is for them "fun time", while the INTJ just sees knowlegde as a tool to achieve what he wants.
    Actually, if I take your 2 categories, I'm b), just without failing terribly. In fact, I get usually above average grades without doing much besides playing computer games with friends or reading nerdy internetforums. Still, most of my teachers are angry with me because they think I could do better if I want to, but I don't really see the point - my grades are good enough for what I wanna do, and the things we learn doesn't interest me even remotely. I rather learn things that DO interest me, like MBTI in the moment.
    So, I'd rather say it's abhorent to the Si-Mindset rather than to the Ti-Fe/Fe-Ti. Maybe that's the way ENTPs fit in your worldview? I'm still not sure about my type. Though this is just my experience at school, maybe it will be different at university.
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  10. #50

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    I've noticed alot of discontent among students lately. Fear not though, discontent is the first step on the ladder to change.

    It may be too late for you but your kids are going to love the changes all this discontent will bring.

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