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  1. #271
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    I am far from a feeler and have had the same experience. I wouldn't say it is because I "gently touched something" in them. I simply took an interest in them and tried to listen before jumping to conclusions.


    OK but sometimes I got ticked off if people tried to force what I consider illogical or stupid, especially if they were being self-serving so they don't have to face their own errors, but wanted me to concede to something I think false. The anger did not mean they were right in the first instance.
    But that's just me.
    I don't doubt that T's can have this effect on others as well, as I've had them do it to me too, but I do think Feelers are more prone to this type of situation As for the anger, when it is accompanied by a vibe of fear, you know you've gotten too close to the truth and they don't like you being that aware of their intimate emotions. Which..of course is their decision. The anger about being misunderstood feels very different though, IME, so that difference to me at least, is very clear.(note: on the internet it is fuzzier as you do not get the full set of signals: body language and intonation are extremely important in these matter)
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  2. #272
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I don't doubt that T's can have this effect on others as well, as I've had them do it to me too, but I do think Feelers are more prone to this type of situation As for the anger, when it is accompanied by a vibe of fear, you know you've gotten too close to the truth and they don't like you being that aware of their intimate emotions.
    Or they fear what they may do if you piss them off too much. The attack on autonomy can arouse pretty strong defenses in an introverted T and if they lose control, can look pretty scary. Most of us would prefer not to go there. I've been in that position where I was accused of something so off-base by a feeler who kept pushing it and pushing it (she couldn't be wrong, of course) until I shocked myself and the feeler with (you guessed it) anger out of all proportion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Which..of course is their decision. The anger about being misunderstood feels very different though, IME, so that difference to me at least, is very clear.(note: on the internet it is fuzzier as you do not get the full set of signals: body language and intonation are extremely important in these matter)
    It's not an anger at being misunderstood. It's anger at the attack at my autonomy. Many of us are used to being misunderstood.

    And yes, It's hard to read correctly on the internet, but when I listen IRL I listen to not only what they say but also when and how they say it. It's no wonder people often get it so wrong on the net.
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  3. #273
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    Or they fear what they may do if you piss them off too much. The attack on autonomy can arouse pretty strong defenses in an introverted T and if they lose control, can look pretty scary. Most of us would prefer not to go there. I've been in that position where I was accused of something so off-base by a feeler who kept pushing it and pushing it (she couldn't be wrong, of course) until I shocked myself and the feeler with (you guessed it) anger out of all proportion.
    You've had this happen to you a couple of times huh
    I usually try just to state carefully what I feel is going on, and if I don't get a favorable reaction, I let it go, unless that vibe keeps popping up during the entire conversation, so I'll rarely get the reaction where someone just blows up on me because I misunderstand. I do get that reaction when they're trying to explain something to me which I find hard to comprehend, but that's a different matter. However, I wonder if that's what is getting confused here.

    I have had it happen to me where I intuit how someone perceives a certain situation (happens a lot when I'm still getting to know the person), and ask if I'm correct, they indicate no, and I then ask questions as to why not and how they do perceive it. When the other party is not able to convey that clearly to me, frustration does sometimes arrise. But I'll hardly be pressing that you SHOULD feel the way I think you are. It's more the frustration of miscommunication, like you're talking two different languages.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    It's not an anger at being misunderstood. It's anger at the attack at my autonomy. Many of us are used to being misunderstood.
    And yes, It's hard to read correctly on the internet, but when I listen IRL I listen to not only what they say but also when and how they say it. It's no wonder people often get it so wrong on the net.
    I have to ask though, what you mean with the attack at your autonomy. Are you strictly referring to those occasions where someone insists you should feel a certain way, or do you include situations where someone actually does come too close for comfort. And you might be used to being misunderstood, but being misunderstood about how you feel is still a bit more sensitive than being misunderstood about a theory you have...or at least that's the case for me.
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  4. #274
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Yeah, it has happened a few times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I have to ask though, what you mean with the attack at your autonomy. Are you strictly referring to those occasions where someone insists you should feel a certain way, or do you include situations where someone actually does come too close for comfort.
    The attack is in the form of just wanting to have it their way in their explanation of what is going on. It's related to what I wrote here:
    OK but sometimes I got ticked off if people tried to force what I consider illogical or stupid, especially if they were being self-serving so they don't have to face their own errors, but wanted me to concede to something I think false.
    It is this need for the feeler to have the thinker accept the feeler's opinion no matter how wrong or else accept that the thinker is incompetent at gauging their own feelings - to take the assessment out of the thinker's hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And you might be used to being misunderstood, but being misunderstood about how you feel is still a bit more sensitive than being misunderstood about a theory you have...or at least that's the case for me.
    Being misunderstood about how I feel is only more of a problem if I cannot simply explain and be done with it, as with a theory.
    It is true that part of what caused the outsized anger I described above was being accused of something wrongly when I thought the feeler - as a friend - should have known me better than to reach that conclusion. Stubborn clinging to the conclusion exacerbated it.
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  5. #275
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacuss View Post
    Being misunderstood about how I feel is only more of a problem if I cannot simply explain and be done with it, as with a theory.
    It is true that part of what caused the outsized anger I described above was being accused of something wrongly when I thought the feeler - as a friend - should have known me better than to reach that conclusion. Stubborn clinging to the conclusion exacerbated it.
    Would active questionning exacerbate it as well though? And I mean by that, asking how you would describe the feeling and how what I'm sensing is off, or what could be a logical explanation for why you are vibing that feeling while you're telling me I'm off. Coz I've had it happen that that triggers a sudden outburst of frustration and anger.
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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Would active questionning exacerbate it as well though? And I mean by that, asking how you would describe the feeling and how what I'm sensing is off, or what could be a logical explanation for why you are vibing that feeling while you're telling me I'm off. Coz I've had it happen that that triggers a sudden outburst of frustration and anger.
    Im not NT, but hopefully this will help. Emotions are not their strongest point, its almost like being blind, they are very vulnerable especially when their very close emotions are being questioned, under the logical armour, it feels weird to have someone so close to your emotional state and still not understand it, especially if the person is quite far away, whether NTs would admit that I don't know. Much like feelers can misuse hard logic in certain situations. Best way is to just to ask, why they're acting like that, I wouldn't mind that. Like for example, there may be other reasons for it, rather than you, then thought itd be best to leave for awhile and equally thought itd be in people's benefit to give people space. NTs should still be careful about how the action is interpretated though definantly that is a drawback. If you've let know to NTs that you could interpretate it this way, they'll be more careful about it, don't worry too much about its fine.

  7. #277
    Junior Member 8lifeGREAT's Avatar
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    Default NT's feelings

    NT's Ps are free to create, so the idea that feelings ARE what we SAY they are have me rarely REACT with a feeling. I process my feelings AWAY. Being extraverted in every other area and being someone who works with FEELING people (special ed) with no filters can be unexpected.

    I did a course called the Forum which appealed to me greatly and helped me identify key themes in my life. BIG emotions usually suprise me, I'm so rational. And I'm a behaviorist by training SOOOO I prefer it that way. I prefer to watch what people are doing rather than what they are saying. But being a 'P' I'll allow them to go on and on for a very long time.

    I highly value intimacy (the EN part) so I spend alot of time creating relationship VALUE. But NT allows me time to go away and process. In the very moment of an emotionally charged exchange I am told that I often can read someone the riot act w/ no indication that I am upset, AND that it goes off like a bomb when they think about it. For this reason I can seem UNSAFE especially to F's and types who like to play it safe. My type is interested in innovating so we have no interest in the same-old-same-old. We want change and this happens in the emotional realm; people need to KEEP UP and transform.

    This can be very confusing for ISTJ, ESTJ and S's in general. One needs a big picture or long term perspective to feel safe, I think, for these types.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Yeah the same thing as calling me illogical. I don't care at all.
    Logic helps you achieve your goals. For example, if you want to find the kindest spouse but you based your selection on hair color, then I would call your choice illogical.

  9. #279
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Sorry, I can't exactly cite personal observations.

    I will tell you that I essentially spend 5+ hours a day, if not longer (and have consciously for at least 6 years) thinking about/systematizing/discussing other people's feelings and motivations. Not that this is necessarily reason to believe me...but I bet I've spent a lot more time thinking about it than most people.
    Well, if we are going that route -- that's how I spent my entire first 30 years of life (and I'm not exaggerating), and I still spend a lot of time thinking about those things, I can't suppress that intensity of behavior, although I've eased up a great deal because I now trust my ability to deal without having to figure everyone out ahead of time.

    Yes, I was extremely neurotic. Interesting, I WAS the same way as you describe, and it was a signifier for major issues in my life -- I had to appear rational all the time and was constantly downplaying, negating, or dismissing any emotions I felt, as part of protecting myself from dismissive people.

    So I'm not sure whether I'm in agreement or disagreement with you on this. I do agree that often, habitual suppression/dismissal/disregard of emotions is a coping mechanism that reduces perceived vulnerability to external attack; however, there might be some other reasons in play as well... in addition to simply the differences between people.

    I do think I will say that "T" people actually can live jovial, relaxed lives, enjoying the moment, not having to pick apart every little statement someone makes, have healthy and relaxed relational bonds with people, not always have to be critical, etc. We can show good and bad emotions in healthy ways, without always having to ignore or push them away.

    IOW, we can be "balanced."
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_Orbit View Post
    Insulting an NTs competence is the best way to hurt their feelings.
    In my case, it would not. If I felt the insult was inaccurate, I would be annoyed and it would reinforced the "I'm surrounded by idiots" attitude.

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