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  1. #261
    Senior Member Samurai Drifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Is that because it's true? Or because it's not true? Or does the truth or lack of truth in it have nothing to do with it? Oh wait it's probably just because you don't value warm-heartedness. I'm still curious if truth or lack of truth matters though.

    EDIT! I was assuming it doesn't bother you at all but you just said that it doesn't hurt you. Does it affect you in a negative way sometimes?
    It just doesn't have any effect on me, and the idea of someone using that as an insult is humorous.
    Hands in the air, it's a robbery.

  2. #262
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stigmatic View Post

    I certainly agree that Fs are more comfortable in the realm of their emotions - recognizing and classifying them. Many, though not all, are better with dealing with them as they arise. What I was curious about is where they extend this facility to presume to know how others - sometimes strangers - are feeling and insist on trauma or repression if the evidence does not match their assumptions.
    OH I SEE.

    Oh well I can't talk for others but...

    If it's a stranger and I'm not actually conciously thinking about it and he or she shows any of the normal signs of emotional expression like a smile or a frown etc. etc. then I'll assume they're experiencing the usual emotions that normally accompany those expressions and then if they were to deny those emotions I might think they were lying, I might not, it would depend, but in any case I wouldn't really give it much thought and would probably forget about it 5 seconds later because it's just a stranger. If I were conciously thinking about it I would probably come up with all kinds of explanations, one of which being that they could have one of those faces that expresses emotions they're not really feeling. (I often look angry when I'm not really feeling anything) And I would choose to not assume that any one of those explanations were true becaue I'm not that person; I'm not inside of them so I can't be sure that I know what they experienced.

    It's a whole other story when I know someone. When you get to know someone really well you can tell when they're upset...sometimes before they even can. Sometimes it's the outside perspective that's right...even with ourselves. I know that there have been times when people have said I had a certain quality and I said, "No way! There's no way I have that quality. I'm me and I know myself better than you and I don't have that quality!" only to later find or realize that I indeed did have that quality. We can't always see everything inside oursleves and sometimes others can see things we can't. I don't think I know people better than they know themselves overall but sometimes I can see things they can't and vica versa. However, I never assume that someone is in denial or is supressing emotions unless I have good evidence like my example about the shouting man with popping vains throwing things and claiming to not be angry.

    Oh and about trauma...don't ask me I have no clue about that works. Emotions yes. Trauma no.

    The end.

  3. #263
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samurai Drifter View Post
    It just doesn't have any effect on me, and the idea of someone using that as an insult is humorous.
    Yeah the same thing as calling me illogical. I don't care at all.

    If I do what I'm supposed to do and help make the world a better place I have no cares or worries or concerns whatsoever about being "illogical." Whatever that's supposed to mean anyway.

    However, I do sometimes worry about efficiency and logic does come in handy with that...like if I'm trying to help people I want to do the most possible with my recources and I can't think of an example now but I'm sure logic would at the least help.

    Oops. Agh.

    Okay what I mean is I don't care about logic as long as I can fufill my life purpose however I think logic would probably help with that. And if that's true than I only care about to the degree that it will help me and others fufill their life purposes and help things be the way they are meant to be.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Sometimes it's the outside perspective that's right...even with ourselves. I know that there have been times when people have said I had a certain quality and I said, "No way! There's no way I have that quality. I'm me and I know myself better than you and I don't have that quality!" only to later find or realize that I indeed did have that quality. We can't always see everything inside oursleves and sometimes others can see things we can't. I don't think I know people better than they know themselves overall but sometimes I can see things they can't and vica versa. However, I never assume that someone is in denial or is supressing emotions unless I have good evidence like my example about the shouting man with popping vains throwing things and claiming to not be angry.

  5. #265
    Senior Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Okay lol nevermind about the hot tub party that was kind of fun. Discussing stuff like this and getting in each other's minds is so fascinating.

  6. #266
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine View Post
    Okay lol nevermind about the hot tub party that was kind of fun. Discussing stuff like this and getting in each other's minds is so fascinating.
    I still don't trust you! get out of my mind!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #267
    Senior Member Chris_in_Orbit's Avatar
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    OK, this may be irrelevant but where did the whole NTs = Robots sort of generalization begin in the first place? Is it supposed to be targeted specifically at how they act when emotions are involved?...Because many of the NTs I know are vibrant and full of life. INTjs seem to be an exception to this but I can't say I've actually known one well.

    As for Fs being able to deal with emotions better on the whole: No. Fs seem to hold on to slights longer than Ts. Most harp on things that have been forgotten by most a long time ago. Ts may not recognize emotional slights as often as Fs do, but they hardly see them where there weren't any (NFs are SO good at this )

    I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here. Maybe just the perception that NTs don't have any feelings or they repress them is inaccurate... They probably just don't give two shits in the long run.

    I still stand by what I said earlier though. Insulting an NTs competence is the best way to hurt their feelings.

  8. #268
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    Sorry, I can't exactly cite personal observations.

    I will tell you that I essentially spend 5+ hours a day, if not longer (and have consciously for at least 6 years) thinking about/systematizing/discussing other people's feelings and motivations. Not that this is necessarily reason to believe me...but I bet I've spent a lot more time thinking about it than most people.
    I wasn't asking you to. You alluded to research/study. I thought you might have something more concrete to back a statement as categorical as:
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    A conscious fight to maintain "rationality" and push down feeling is ALWAYS a signifier of unresolved major personal issues. ALWAYS.
    You don't. You don't even offer a theory. All you have is your own observation and interpretation, coloured by your own issues.
    This is not convincing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #269
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Wow, this thread has worked out nicely

    I'll join in, as a feeler, on the matter of feeling out other peoples emotions.

    And, as any good feeler, I'll use personal experiences

    As a kid, I used to be confused a lot by what people told me, as the 'vibe' they gave wasn't compatible with what they were saying. And, as the vibe was stronger than their words, I would respond to that, causing all kinds of confusion, anger and silence. People either didn't wanna be called a liar and denied the validity of my response, or suddenly found themselves facing their own fears and what they were trying to repress, or simply didn't understand how I picked up on it. Did I make wrong calls? Yes, especially if the vibe coming of them wasn't that strong, or I didn't know them that well. I'm not gonna say I'm infallable.

    But over the years, I've had numerous people who told me things like: "how do you know that?" and "How is it you know what I'm gonna say" and "I've never told anyone this, but it came out so naturally with you" after I gently touched something in them that nobody ever noticed. These are the nice responses, and that's why we do it. It allows people to heal themselves sometimes, and it creates immensly strong bonds.

    Other responses were denial (and yes, it was denial, coz their anger was just out of proportion with what I said and the vibe I got, got stronger), anger, etc. And of course also sometimes a 'huh? I have no clue what you're on about) and then the vibe would vanish, while they said it, or, it turns out that I miscalculated the thing they were vibing about, which I then encounter later on in the conversation.

    So how does this vibe work:

    What I tend to do to get a feel for someone's emotional state is check their bodylanguage, their intonation, the words they chose and a certain amount of 'gut' that something is off. If one of those things is 'off', I'll check it against the rest of them, and see if I can find more clues. Last, I access in my memory what I know about the person, personality and what is happening in their lifes at that moment as well as what happened in their past, and combine that with how I would feel in that situation, with some adaptations to their own experiences and preferences (which I get from the info on their personality and past experiences).

    I realize I'm not them, and I cannot fully shake my own perspective, and in fact, when I'm unbalanced myself, I'm more likely to make mistakes on this, very much so, coz you start projecting. But feel free to call me arrogant when I say..it does work
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  10. #270
    wholly charmed Spartacuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    But over the years, I've had numerous people who told me things like: "how do you know that?" and "How is it you know what I'm gonna say" and "I've never told anyone this, but it came out so naturally with you" a.
    I am far from a feeler and have had the same experience. I wouldn't say it is because I "gently touched something" in them. I simply took an interest in them and tried to listen before jumping to conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Other responses were denial (and yes, it was denial, coz their anger was just out of proportion with what I said and the vibe I got, got stronger), anger, etc. And of course also sometimes a 'huh? I have no clue what you're on about) and then the vibe would vanish, while they said it, or, it turns out that I miscalculated the thing they were vibing about, which I then encounter later on in the conversation.
    OK but sometimes I got ticked off if people tried to force what I consider illogical or stupid, especially if they were being self-serving so they don't have to face their own errors, but wanted me to concede to something I think false. The anger did not mean they were right in the first instance.
    But that's just me.
    Ti (43); Ne (41.8); Te (33.7); Fi (30.5); Ni (27.5); Se (24.7); Si (21.5); Fe (17.3)
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