[INTJ] INTJs & Affection

[Edgar]

He gets super defensive if you question him or ask him anything that would seem vulnerable. I asked him one time if he missed talking to me (I was being semi-playful) & he responds with some sarcastic remark... "If I didn't, I wouldn't of called you". I'm sure other INTJ's are more receptive, but he's a really stubborn, hard headed motherfucker.

You don't know a lot of INTJs, do you?

 

[soleil]

You don't know a lot of INTJs, do you?

Nope. If I did, I'm sure I'd know how to "deal" with them better. That's why I'm asking.

 

[Edgar]

Nope. If I did, I'm sure I'd know how to "deal" with them better. That's why I'm asking.

He is so painfully and obviously interested in you, I'm surprised you are even asking. By their nature INTJs are withdrawn, aloof, uninterested in others' emotions, and yet fiercely protective of their own feelings. And here he is keeping in contact with you for years on end and making "joking" comments about long term commitments. What would it take for you to understand his intentions? For him to send you a rose and a love letter?

I thought ENFPs tend to be more perceptive than that.

 

[Wild horses]

AAhhh we are about almost everything but those things that make us vulnerable, then our perception just goes out of the window... We loose our percpetion and you INTJs loose your head, what a confused pair in love the ENFP-INTJs would make hahaha

 

[soleil]

Edit: Once again, I'm off writing a tome while half a dozen posts leap in there in the meantime. ((laughs over the previous comments about mind control and chemicals)) I'd wondered what it was in those "vitamins" he was giving me. Aha!
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THE TOME:



((nods)) Exactly like hubby. ((hug on your last comment, too, nonsequitur))



And your instinct said? Unfortunately, it seems like INTJs are one of the least understood personalities in society. I could make a lengthy list full of accusations and misunderstandings hubby's gotten from others. I've found that, to be supportive, those close to INTJs need to see them more clearly than general society does and keep those facts in mind when society tries to contradict those facts. If you get with this INTJ, you may be the only one in his world who supports him. You'll need to strive to understand him like no other may bother to do.



There aren't very many INTJs in the world, so people don't have much access to them in order to get to understand them. Plus, it seems like the personality style makes the INTJ (and perhaps a lot of INTPs) not very inclined to help the general populace to get to know them very well.



Keep in mind that I'm an INTP with an INTJ; plus, I really think that not all INTJs are alike. I feel I need to tell you about an ENFP that hubby had his eye on before he and I got serious. Beautiful, smart, talented, playful. Wonderful girl. He liked her a lot. She's one of the ones he talked about with me when he and I were just friends. Like you, she had gone through a lot of drama/trauma and was using him as a shoulder to lean on, and his blunt honesty was quite refreshing for her....really drew her in.

They were mutually struck with each other. I could see it. As his friend, and he asked, I advised him as well as I could when he was trying to interpret her. Likewise, as we got to know each other, I became her confidante, too. She got upset with him quite a bit, and I ended up explaining his actions to her repeatedly so as to smooth things over between them. I became a go-between for them, quite often.

For reasons unrelated to personality type or my presence, it didn't work out between them. But, we still know her and keep in contact with her because we care about her. We knew her between her first two marriages. In her second marriage, she ended up marrying an INTJ much like hubby and living several hours away from us, rather than in the same community. Their marriage lasted about a year and a half. The problem? He was too project-oriented and "distant" for her tastes. She wanted him to play and relax more often with her than he felt he could and still keep his business operating. He involved her with it as a partner, but he just wasn't emotionally accessible enough for her. She felt isolated and lonely. And, putting myself in his shoes, I'm sure her need for more than he could provide was frustrating for him. I know that, had hubby married her, this aspect between them would have made them both miserable, especially without a go-between to help them understand each other (and I wouldn't have stuck around for that). Eventually, the conflicts in her marriage escalated to the point that they parted.

Before you lose hope, personality types aren't a gospel. Interactions depend a lot on the people, no matter their particular MBTI types. And, she does have bipolar disorder. Ironically, that makes her even more fascinating to an INT, but also harder with which to deal because of the extremes.

I wanted to tell you about her because it is advisable that you look at this relationship from a logical distance, just as your INTJ is likely doing. Consider what you really want in a relationship; any relationship -- not just one with him. Make darn sure you aren't romanticizing and giving yourself higher expectations for "happily ever after" than what reality can provide. The very fact you came here to us to ask about INTJs makes me think you're doing just that, though, so that's good.

If you choose to go forward with a long-term relationship with him, I cannot emphasize enough that you have non-divisive/understanding/trustworthy friends outside the relationship to whom you can unburden your more extreme feelings....or write it out...or go for a walk...or pray...or whatever you've got to do to bring your emotions down off of a "the world is going to fall apart" level (grin). Then, when you're calmer and can view the problem with less emotion, you can approach your INTJ without overwhelming him with an avalanche of feelings. Otherwise, by the time he sorts through all your emotions to get to the "heart of the problem" in order to "fix it," he'll be exhausted (and perhaps wanting to get away from you so he can think in a place outside the dense fog of feelings) and you'll be pulling your hair out and feeling abandoned and/or like a nutcase. (chuckle)

Second emphasis: Maintain a sense of humor. Mandatory tool.
"The great secret of successful marriage is to treat all disasters as incidents and none of the incidents as disasters." -- Harold Nicolson



This is one of the reasons why I was drawn in toward hubby. Though, I'm not emotional either. This is why it concerns me when I think about someone more emotional hooking up with an INTJ who is like my INTJ. I call myself "TPol" because I'm one of the least emotional women I've ever known. Even then, though, I have moments of feeling lonely and isolated because the logic is at such a high level around here that warmth is sometimes lacking. It can get to be too much, even for someone like me.

A sense of humor tends to create a good bridge over that for us, though. When we've enjoyed a silly moment together, the warmth flows like crazy. Thankfully, most of the times when I need him to be silly to get me out of a funk, he's feeling silly...and vice versa. When we're both in a funk and not feeling like being the humorous one, that's when the hard work comes. The hard work entails really looking into each other and trying to understand their perspectives...really being there for the other. If you're both concentrating on being there for the other....understanding how the other is feeling and trying to fill their needs, the bond becomes stronger. Through the rough times, you stay holding on and you lean on the commitment you've made. Then, sure enough, you have another silly moment together that brings you even closer. Another warm moment you can remember that will keep you afloat during the next moment of rough seas.



You don't sound like a dork. Hubby does that for me, too. Another reason why I was drawn to him. I'd finally found someone I could relate to intellectually and not have to refrain from exercising my brain around for fear of awakening the guy's insecurities.



Good. That's how hubby influenced me, too. Careful, though, that you don't lose yourself in changes in order to be what you think he wants. I am saying this more than once because it is easier to fall into "changing to please," even for a wildly independent person, around an INTJ like my hubby than one might think. You'll have to keep an eye on yourself and make sure you don't lose contact with the true you. Remember things as they are now. "Your" INTJ likes you for what he's already seen or he wouldn't be calling and making efforts to stay in touch. I doubt he wants someone he can program to be JUST what he wants. My INTJ has always liked spunk and independence. He definitely got that when he got himself captured by me!



With my INTJ there's never a question without a reason behind it. Sounds to me like he's been thinking about how to bring you and he closer together, location-wise. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's what that question would make me think of.



Yup, yup. Exactly me when hubby and I came across each other. No wonder this INTJ likes you. For this, too:



VERY similar to a couple incidents between hubby and I. He likes you.



Tee hee. (( s INTJs )) ^ Hubby was that way at first, too. He was just so darn adorable. Still is. Dang....now look what you've done....I gotta go give him a squeeze again!

You made a lot of good points. You are right on. I already accepted that I will not get any emotional support from him (unless he decides to & I return the same back). It's just not possible or natural for him. It is what it is. I would lay low with being vulnerable in front of him at all costs. I have dignity, I just can't do it. I'd lace him with small doses here & there, but never fully give myself to him. It wouldn't be healthy for me. Uh uh. My question is: what am I supposed to say when he asks what's on my mind & it's emotion-related? Do I lie or just keep it brief? He is always asking & I noticed I change the subject to avoid any discomfort for him & myself. We'll see how things unfold. If anything, I would like to pick his brain. It's just weird, like I mentioned before....I do not need to be constantly told I am special or cared about. Here's something funny, he can't really pick up on my ques as well as he claims he does. There are few things that confuse me about him. If he's not an emotional guy, why when I am emotionally distant, he tries to get me to go there? If he's not open emotionally, why should I? I give him exactly what I feel he gives me. It's only fair. I am not willing to give my soul to someone who won't for me. I don't even consider what I have given him that much. I have feelings, but I have to play a certain role. This situation seems hopeless because I do not ever pursue anyone.

 

[soleil]

He is so painfully and obviously interested in you, I'm surprised you are even asking. By their nature INTJs are withdrawn, aloof, uninterested in others' emotions, and yet fiercely protective of their own feelings. And here he is keeping in contact with you for years on end and making "joking" comments about long term commitments. What would it take for you to understand his intentions? For him to send you a rose and a love letter?

I thought ENFPs tend to be more perceptive than that.

Edgar,

I am very perceptive, but I am trying my best to take things for face value. I made it a goal to be more logical. I feel he does care for me, but I don't know the level of care he has for me. I have my own assumptions..., but I rather hear what other INTJ/NT's think.

 

[Edgar]

AAhhh we are about almost everything but those things that make us vulnerable, then our perception just goes out of the window... We loose our percpetion and you INTJs loose your head, what a confused pair in love the ENFP-INTJs would make hahaha

Yes, that's why ENFP women often end up dating ISTJ men - because an ISTJ lays out the commitments and obligations in front of an ENFP like a merchant displaying his wares to a potential buyer. This makes an ENFP feel safe and secure and she immediately signs up.

A few months later she is shocked and heartbroken to find out that the practical minded, down to earth, no nonsense, safe bet of a mate isn't exactly in tune with her unicorns and rainbows thinking and general idealism.

 

[Wild horses]

LOLOLOLOL!!! Stop it Edgar your crushing my heart along with the unicorns

 

[GargoylesLegacy]

This thread = Apocalypse

If I'm lucky enough to have feelings at all, I certainly don't ignore them. Much less do the opposite. Seems inefficient as a strategy.

I don't care for physical touching or verbalizing affection. I will be helpful though. Fix their computer, clean it etc. Make sure the date activities include a personal element for the recipient. I mentally note anything that is important or loved by them, and give appropriate but non-conventional gifts.

I REALLY agree to 01011010s post. Uhm and also I tend to make lots of compliments. Well, but of course only about things I really mean! Not just random stuff or lies. So for example I would tell a person how awesome s/he is.
All the rest varies. I mean stuff like physical contact etc. I can compromise, tho I dun like a person who will always be stuck to me like glue. It's like "Gee, can I have at least a little space to breathe? Can't even move my freaking chest to take the air I need."

Oh and verbal affection...well, it is nice to hear it, but if a person says it too much it looks pretty fake. Get the idea? So I'd rather hear it rare, but coming really from the deepest bottom of the heart than like...every day for 10 times or whatever.

 

[soleil]

Yes, that's why ENFP women often end up dating ISTJ men - because an ISTJ lays out the commitments and obligations in front of an ENFP like a merchant displaying his wares to a potential buyer. This makes an ENFP feel safe and secure and she immediately signs up.

A few months later she is shocked and heartbroken to find out that the practical minded, down to earth, no nonsense, safe bet of a mate isn't exactly in tune with her unicorns and rainbows thinking and general idealism.

I see your point. Deep inside, I know he cares for me. I just want to know when the hell it's going to move forward? Yes or no, maybe. Okay, is that so wrong of me? When can we have a concrete, direct conversation? Even if it's once in life, when???? Please don't act like INTJ's are easy to work with! I have really tried (in my own way) & want to know how to take it to the next level. Btw, I don't want a rose & love letter...I'll pass. :rolli:

 

[Edgar]

Edgar,

I am very perceptive, but I am trying my best to take things for face value. I made it a goal to be more logical. I feel he does care for me, but I don't know the level of care he has for me. I have my own assumptions..., but I rather hear what other INTJ/NT's think.

Forget about your goal to be "more logical". It won't do you any good to try to be someone you are not. Just try to understand INTJ's thought process. That's what MBTI is all about anyway.

He is interested in you, that much is obvious. But INTJs do not like to make promises they cannot keep, especially when it comes to something as sensitive as a romantic relationship. As stated before by other INTJs here, we express our affection through actions a lot more than words. So if you are waiting for the words, you won't hear them, not for a long while anyway.

INTJs do not fall in love the same way NFs do. There is no "love at first sight". INTJs become interested, then they make gradual steps toward getting closer to a person, then as they find out more about the person they either start falling in love, or they move on.

The only way for you to get an accurate answer is to spend enough time with him where you can both see whether this is worth taking to another level.

That's all there is to it.

 

[Wild horses]

I do know what you mean Soleil but then do you also find that part of you prefers the mystery... Concrete has it's place.. ie the basement of your home... But then I know that it's nice to have it also (Am soooo in two minds tonight) ignore my post it will confuse u even more

 

[soleil]

Forget about your goal to be "more logical". It won't do you any good to try to be someone you are not. Just try to understand INTJ's thought process. That's what MBTI is all about anyway.

He is interested in you, that much is obvious. But INTJs do not like to make promises they cannot keep, especially when it comes to something as sensitive as a romantic relationship. As stated before by other INTJs here, we express our affection through actions a lot more than words. So if you are waiting for the words, you won't hear them, not for a long while anyway.

INTJs do not fall in love the same way NFs do. There is no "love at first sight". INTJs become interested, then they make gradual steps toward getting closer to a person, then as they find out more about the person they either start falling in love, or they move on.

The only way for you to get an accurate answer is to spend enough time with him where you can both see whether this is worth taking to another level.

That's all there is to it.

Okay.

 

[soleil]

I do know what you mean Soleil but then do you also find that part of you prefers the mystery... Concrete has it's place.. ie the basement of your home... But then I know that it's nice to have it also (Am soooo in two minds tonight) ignore my post it will confuse u even more

Lol, you're funny. . I love mystery. It's about balance for me though.

 

[Wild horses]

Yea I know what you mean I like balance sometimes but I must admit I love mystery even more I like the period of time just before things happen.. I think I have said this somewhere before... That's why Friday's are always better than Saturday's, Christmas eve is always better than Christmas day etc... I'm such an ENFP aren't I in love with the idea of the possibilities but not in love with the actual possibilitiues themselves LOL Hopeless

 

[soleil]

Yea I know what you mean I like balance sometimes but I must admit I love mystery even more I like the period of time just before things happen.. I think I have said this somewhere before... That's why Friday's are always better than Saturday's, Christmas eve is always better than Christmas day etc... I'm such an ENFP aren't I in love with the idea of the possibilities but not in love with the actual possibilitiues themselves LOL Hopeless

I won't even try to lie, I like the same things. I never had balance so, I really want that! I am very ENFP about possibilities too, hehe. :-x

 

[Wild horses]

LOL we are just suckers for them right...

 

[Uytuun]

INTJs do not fall in love the same way NFs do. There is no "love at first sight". INTJs become interested, then they make gradual steps toward getting closer to a person, then as they find out more about the person they either start falling in love, or they move on.

I don't know what you mean by love, but we're quite capable of forming this deep chemistry-induced connection at first sight that demands action. Doesn't stop the overanalysing, of course.

I had always thought of the phenomenon of falling in love as non-type-related, the reaction to it might be different, but it seems like the manifestation itself need not be. Am I wrong?

 

[Edgar]

I don't know what you mean by love, but we're quite capable of forming this deep chemistry-induced connection at first sight that demands action. Doesn't stop the overanalysing, of course.

I had always thought of the phenomenon of falling in love as non-type-related, the reaction to it might be different, but it seems like the manifestation itself need not be. Am I wrong?

When I speak of love, I speak of the the third, and final stage of love as defined by some (most likely NT) social scientist:

1. Lust
2. Romantic obsession
3. Attachment

From this INTJ's point of view, "love at first sight" is absurd because how in the world can I love someone if I know nothing about them? I might be immensely attracted to them in a physical sense, but those things are fleeting. Before I can make a lifelong commitment and experience someone else's utility as my own (i.e. what's good for them is good for me), I first have to know the person.

 

[soleil]

I don't know what you mean by love, but we're quite capable of forming this deep chemistry-induced connection at first sight that demands action. Doesn't stop the overanalysing, of course.

I had always thought of the phenomenon of falling in love as non-type-related, the reaction to it might be different, but it seems like the manifestation itself need not be. Am I wrong?

Pheromones?

I think is a combination of a few things actually. Chemistry-induced connections are unbelievable. I wouldn't say it has much to do with type though. Anyone could experience it. That's my take on it.