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  1. #221
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Oi. I've never seen that written out before, but I do it often. When stressed, the extreme method you mentioned does come out. I failed to understand why it bothered the XNFJ, but the way you described it speaks volumes. Times like this, remind me exactly why I joined the forum in the first place. For insight, into interactions.
    No sweaters, fellow traveller.

    But hey, a word of caution... I know I do that aggressive monotone detailing or proving of why something should happen too, and I know it comes out in times of stress and isn't my natural way of functioning and I hate it, but I don't know truly if it is Ti rearing it's ugly head or not. I guess it's Ti because for me it includes detailing, the making of alarming point by point demonstrations of why I'm "right"--but is that Ti? Shadow Ti maybe. Defensive. Not healthy and natural. Ti pulled out of the ass to tendentiously support some earlier Te-Ni-Fi stand.

    Where did the idea come from? (And why is it not so good?)

    Check out function orders for INTJ and INFJ, and also take a look at the description of the roles of each function position, particularly Critical Parent and Relief.

    If pulling functions out of the shadows to deal with stress is upsetting for people around us, it's got to be a good deal more complex than just the bastard-Ti on its own. The story's bigger.

    I mean, after all, when that stream of angry detailing comes out of my mouth, it's coming out of my mouth! It's being extraverted. Or is it? Is it the expression of something extraverting?

    I... dunno.

    It could be true that under extreme pressure in front of someone I will focus a bastardised intuition outward looking for negative meaning in other people's actions, I will rant Ti-like, I will consciously aim to disconnect from the people or to hurt or make them obey my feeling, and a lot of details from the past will be used to back it all up. Sounds like me. Sounds like bastardised Ne>Ti>Fe>Si, a pretend ENTP.

    But I really don't know exactly what it is, really. It needs some more thought.




    And, yep, when I'm normal--secretly, weirdly a romantic--grand sacrificial gestures are too appealing! At least as symbols.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    No sweaters, fellow traveller.

    But hey, a word of caution... I know I do that aggressive monotone detailing or proving of why something should happen too, and I know it comes out in times of stress and isn't my natural way of functioning and I hate it, but I don't know truly if it is Ti rearing it's ugly head or not. I guess it's Ti because for me it includes detailing, the making of alarming point by point demonstrations of why I'm "right"--but is that Ti? Shadow Ti maybe. Defensive. Not healthy and natural. Ti pulled out of the ass to tendentiously support some earlier Te-Ni-Fi stand.

    Where did the idea come from? (And why is it not so good?)

    Check out function orders for INTJ and INFJ, and also take a look at the description of the roles of each function position, particularly Critical Parent and Relief.

    If pulling functions out of the shadows to deal with stress is upsetting for people around us, it's got to be a good deal more complex than just the bastard-Ti on its own. The story's bigger.

    I mean, after all, when that stream of angry detailing comes out of my mouth, it's coming out of my mouth! It's being extraverted. Or is it? Is it the expression of something extraverting?

    I... dunno.

    It could be true that under extreme pressure in front of someone I will focus a bastardised intuition outward looking for negative meaning in other people's actions, I will rant Ti-like, I will consciously aim to disconnect from the people or to hurt or make them obey my feeling, and a lot of details from the past will be used to back it all up. Sounds like me. Sounds like bastardised Ne>Ti>Fe>Si, a pretend ENTP.

    But I really don't know exactly what it is, really. It needs some more thought.




    And, yep, when I'm normal--secretly, weirdly a romantic--grand sacrificial gestures are too appealing! At least as symbols.
    Alright. Now, you're airing all my dirty laundry. Everything you described, is exactly what I do as well. I've only noticed it within the last 6 months or so.

    Symbols, how would you present that to another?

  3. #223
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Hidden away in the limpid pools of two gleaming eyes, probably.

    And semaphore.




    But mostly I meant that such symbols appeal to me. Thus, in the traditional sense of the word, I'm a romantic. And perhaps not romantic per se. But you know, going out to a restaurant and having the waiter bring over a dragon to slay, it'll impress the chicks no end. It's on the To-do list.

  4. #224
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    Me thinks a majority of INTJs are romantics. Least to some degree of the statement. What do you guys think?

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    Me thinks a majority of INTJs are romantics. Least to some degree of the statement. What do you guys think?
    No.

    Unless you want to qualify it with that second sentence. Then everyone is a romantic, making the first sentence worthless.

  6. #226
    Content. Content? DigitalMethod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    No.

    Unless you want to qualify it with that second sentence. Then everyone is a romantic, making the first sentence worthless.
    Yet if I did not put that disclaimer I feared the non-romantic INTJs might flip out. I lose either way.
    "The life of the individual has meaning only insofar as it aids in making the life of every living thing nobler and more beautiful."
    - Albert Einstein

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    Yet if I did not put that disclaimer I feared the non-romantic INTJs might flip out. I lose either way.
    I'll make it extra simple!

    "Most INTJs are not romantics."

    Ta-da!

  8. #228
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    There will from time to time arise circumstances where it is impossible for you to act. Not merely difficult or uncomfortable, but impossible. No turn nor trick nor happenstance will provide any avenue, nor any tool nor any chance. There is no such action. But you will also be required to act. So you will.

    The romance of the image lies in there one day, somewhere, at the right time being that set of conditions that so require you to act that though you cannot, indeed you will, because you must.

    I can say it no better than that. Play out a story if you like were the contradiction entails that the man will not move, will not succeed, and I will tell you that he must succeed, so he will.

    Romance.


    There may be kinds of romance that include flowers and candle light dinners. These are for people who date.

  9. #229
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalMethod View Post
    Me thinks a majority of INTJs are romantics. Least to some degree of the statement. What do you guys think?
    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    I'll make it extra simple!

    "Most INTJs are not romantics."

    Ta-da!
    Judge Judy.

  10. #230
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    To explain, as I feel I must, that paradox is neither muscular Te nor hopeful Se, it is an expression of the existence of Fi conviction, and that conviction being at the heart of all things, it wills, so its will will be done.

    He must act, so he will.


    Romance.

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