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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    I think the point that he was making is that love doesn't exist in ether, rather it is based on something. Something that takes time to grow and solidify before it becomes permanent enough to last a lifetime.
    Yes, definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by tereza View Post
    l've learned from my INTJ friend, they make real long and complicated plans, so it'll be a loooong time before you know what the heck he's thinking.
    Yes. lol Though, the people involved with me know what my plans are, during the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Yeah I agree with you on that one. He needs to man up and stop being such a bitch. I can empathize with an INTJ being careful about his feelings of affection, but 10 years is just plain unreasonable.
    He is being a bitch. You've already invested 3 years. By the 5th year, he should definitely be ready to move closer or step it up even further. If he's ever really going to.

    I take an abnormal amount of time too, but 10 years on top of the 3 that have already passed with no progression from your current state, is ridiculous. I'd seriously consider what your putting into it, and if it's worth that. Have a very direct, blunt talk with him. Ask him straight up where it's going. Don't sugarcoat or get scared, because he may be counting on that to evade your question. Even if he's not, he may not understand what you want exactly. So, choose words that clearly express what you need to know.

    I.E.
    Bad: What do you see for the future?
    Good: Is our relationship going to get serious in the next 2 years?

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Yes, definitely.



    Yes. lol Though, the people involved with me know what my plans are, during the process.



    He is being a bitch. You've already invested 3 years. By the 5th year, he should definitely be ready to move closer or step it up even further. If he's ever really going to.

    I take an abnormal amount of time too, but 10 years on top of the 3 that have already passed with no progression from your current state, is ridiculous. I'd seriously consider what your putting into it, and if it's worth that. Have a very direct, blunt talk with him. Ask him straight up where it's going. Don't sugarcoat or get scared, because he may be counting on that to evade your question. Even if he's not, he may not understand what you want exactly. So, choose words that clearly express what you need to know.

    I.E.
    Bad: What do you see for the future?
    Good: Is our relationship going to get serious in the next 2 years?

    Maybe I'm being childish about it. I don't know about INTJ's & jealousy, but I see he tries to get me jealous or get some type of reaction out of me often. I don't react at all. It's stupid to me & I don't want to participate in it.

    He does live a distance away from me. Maybe things would be different if he lived closer by. I don't pursue him or suggest anything so, technically he's doing all the 'work". It's just not my style. I might be a bit old fashion in it that, I expect the guy to do the pursuing. I forgot to mention he brought up moving here for business sake. I just suggested he stay there because rent is extremely high here & it would be wise to live where he's staying. I don't think I have it in me to really hope in us, but I care for him. I always told myself that i would never beg a guy (ultamatium him) to be with me no matter how much I wanted him. Also, he's a bit less mature than me, has a big ego. When I see him, I look past all the fascade he puts out in the world.

    Btw, he brought up the 10 year marriage thing joking (I'm assuming). Who knows if he meant it. I swear this guy seems like he's always trying to test me. He wants to act all big & bad around me (acting like he's a playboy) or on the phone when I just wished he would just act normal. Even out when I met his friends, he was always trying to look so smooth when deep inside all I saw was a cute dork. I'm really leaning toward him being a narcisisst now. He talks about himself a lot (usually about how everyone loves him, etc). In my honest opinion, he is fighting his real/honest self against his fake self. Everytime I try to get him out of my mind, he comes calling me. I even erased his number so, I wouldn't feel tempted to call him. He seems pretty delusional. I swear I am the only person that is "normal" in his life. He'll call & vent sometimes about all the bs. He's more into the superficial than I ever was. He tries too hard. Maybe it's me being an ENFP or just something more...I see a smart, interesting person trying to fit into the rest of society. It's pretty much a turn off. I hope he grows up because I might not be here waiting for him. Best believe I ain't waiting 10 years, LOL. Fuck outta here.

    Wouldn't that seem like I'm trying to be clingy asking him to tell me if there is a future?

    It's hard for me because I have a lot of pride & don't want to come across too eager. I don't know anything.
    Om–ba–ara–minaya–sabaha
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by soleil View Post
    It's hard for me because I have a lot of pride & don't want to come across too eager. I don't know anything.
    After 3 years, I think eager or clingy is the last thing you're going to come across as.

    Anyway, I like how when the idea of talking to him is introduced, all sorts of resistances and concerns are brought up. He's immature, he's delusional, narcissism...

    You know, if you want the relationship to be more than what it is, you'll have to let him know of your interest. I mean, he offered to move and you shut him down...what's that all about? He's pursuing and you're still running. Why? Do you genuinely think he's crazy? Are you waiting for him to grow up? Are you worried that if you're vulnerable with him, then you'll be hurt? You might want to explore the root of those concerns a little more, before you do anything. If something is telling you that he's crazy, then yeah, don't encourage him.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by soleil View Post
    He has to come here for business actually. Technically, not really for me, you see . One time we were sitting in a lounge (he had to do some business there) & he seemed a bit vulnerable. He was introducing me to some of his comrades. A few guys tried to hit on me & he took over (acted macho). It was odd, but I liked it. It was not like him. The first time I met him, he pretty much eye raped me, lol. He said "The eyes are the windows to the soul, I see you are trying to look away...you must be scared that I can see right through you". I received an email from him saying how he's so glad to of met me. I wasn't trying to hide anything, I'm just extremely shy & don't know what to do when people make direct eye contact. So, I just pretended like I received a text or a phone call. It was a powerful moment, wowzers!

    Question: How do INTJ's feel about leaving someone alone in their space (room, office, etc.)? He left me alone in rooms a couple of times alone for hours with his laptop & all his things. He let me know that he doesn't let anyone be alone with his stuff. Lol. Seriously, I did not look into his files or through any of his stuff. I told myself not to take it personal.
    1) He definitelydefinitelydefinitely likes you. And I don't ever say that I'm glad to have met people. Never. Unless I mean it, and I know that it won't be thrown back at me.

    2) Yes, he trusts you. I don't let anyone into my personal space. And if I "have to", I make sure to hide (or even destroy) anything even remotely personal. I would rather throw away sketches, journals, books, CDs or DVDs that I love than leave them lying around where people whom I don't trust could see them. It's more than a "personal space" thing, though. (at least for me) He's essentially giving you access "into his perspective/life", which (IMO) requires a lot more trust that I'm willing to give to even my closest friends. You should absolutely take it personally. And you also did the right thing by not looking into his files or through any of his stuff, because it maintains that trust.

    He's given you all the signals! He's been serious for a long time, by the looks of it.

    RE: TPol's tome: Good advice for dealing with INTJs, all 'round.


    Edited because I've caught up on the thread: He sounds rather immature, and not self-confident. If he's still trying to "fit in" with social expectations and acts out in different crowds, perhaps he needs more time to figure out who he is and what he wants. In the mean time, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to pursue a relationship with him. He doesn't sound ready.

  5. #155
    Senior Member TPol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereza View Post
    After 3 years, I think eager or clingy is the last thing you're going to come across as.

    Anyway, I like how when the idea of talking to him is introduced, all sorts of resistances and concerns are brought up. He's immature, he's delusional, narcissism...

    You know, if you want the relationship to be more than what it is, you'll have to let him know of your interest. I mean, he offered to move and you shut him down...what's that all about? He's pursuing and you're still running. Why? Do you genuinely think he's crazy? Are you waiting for him to grow up? Are you worried that if you're vulnerable with him, then you'll be hurt? You might want to explore the root of those concerns a little more, before you do anything. If something is telling you that he's crazy, then yeah, don't encourage him.
    ((nods re: this ^ whole post))

    To be blunt with you, soleil, I had decided not to post in this thread again because of what I was seeing here from you, in the thread overall. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps all this has been broiling inside you and it is coming out in pieces in reaction to what various people are saying. But, it was coming across as your attitude toward him morphing to match/echo whatever was being said to you about him at any given moment. Frankly, if your attitude is going to shift based on what is said about a guy you should know better than any of us do (you've been intimate; we've never met him), you are the one who isn't right for an INTJ. I'm not saying anyone here attacked him (they don't know him). That's not my point. The following is:

    I can give you story after story about all the times people have misunderstood my INTJ and bad-mouthed him, even trying to turn ME (HIS WIFE) against him and be divisive! (stupid people) ((throws another alligator in the moat))((turns weapons off "stun"))

    If this relationship does go long-term, I'd like you to keep this in mind. For his sake. Hubby and I have been to points in our lives when it felt like every person around us hated him (we are activists rooting for a controversial, local cause). To be truly a support for an INTJ, as a life partner should be, one needs to know and love him (and his motives) better than society does. And, you need to remember that about him and trust in it and be his cheerleader when others are in attack mode. If you don't like the INTJ's motives or chosen path, pull him aside in private and clearly, directly talk about what you don't agree with. If an INTJ picks you to be his mate, it is for a really good reason and he trusts your opinion. Pulling him aside in private means you're refusing to give ammunition to the listening/watching attackers.

    If the others can convince the INTJ's best mate that the INTJ is an ogre, then that's the worst betrayal of the heart that an INTJ could ever feel. And, it would stick with him for the rest of his life, imo.

    If you want him, strive to get to know him like this. What concerns me about this match is that you've already alluded to the idea that he's like an addictive drug for you. So, you may choose to join with him without really knowing him to the point where you could accurately explain him to others, if the need arose. Until you can do that, I think you're both best off keeping this at "friends only."

    The ENFP my hubby was drawn to and vice versa? Remember that I was consistently having to explain him to her and, to a lesser degree, her to him. When I wasn't there as a go-between, she'd think awful things of him...and he'd, first, feel helpless and then "back away from the crazy woman" when she'd go off on him about it. Admittedly, she had some mental issues (and you don't strike me that way). But, the potential for misunderstandings is there, and I think that's actually why you're here asking for our perspectives about INTJs. Again, watch yourself that you don't morph who you are to please him nor morph your opinion of him based on what people who don't know him say about him. [No offense to you INTJs in the crowd, but this does seem to be a common problem among people around you. This is why I'm so glad to find so many of you are relatively benevolent. ]

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    1) He definitelydefinitelydefinitely likes you. And I don't ever say that I'm glad to have met people. Never. Unless I mean it, and I know that it won't be thrown back at me.

    2) Yes, he trusts you. I don't let anyone into my personal space. And if I "have to", I make sure to hide (or even destroy) anything even remotely personal. I would rather throw away sketches, journals, books, CDs or DVDs that I love than leave them lying around where people whom I don't trust could see them. It's more than a "personal space" thing, though. (at least for me) He's essentially giving you access "into his perspective/life", which (IMO) requires a lot more trust that I'm willing to give to even my closest friends. You should absolutely take it personally. And you also did the right thing by not looking into his files or through any of his stuff, because it maintains that trust.

    He's given you all the signals! He's been serious for a long time, by the looks of it.

    RE: TPol's tome: Good advice for dealing with INTJs, all 'round.

    Edited because I've caught up on the thread: He sounds rather immature, and not self-confident. If he's still trying to "fit in" with social expectations and acts out in different crowds, perhaps he needs more time to figure out who he is and what he wants. In the mean time, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to pursue a relationship with him. He doesn't sound ready.
    ^ Excellent post, too (including the lovin' on me ((hug back)) ).

    I hope I didn't come across as harsh, soleil. That wasn't the intent. I'm just concerned, for both your sake and his.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPol View Post
    ((nods re: this ^ whole post))

    To be blunt with you, soleil, I had decided not to post in this thread again because of what I was seeing here from you, in the thread overall. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, perhaps all this has been broiling inside you and it is coming out in pieces in reaction to what various people are saying. But, it was coming across as your attitude toward him morphing to match/echo whatever was being said to you about him at any given moment. Frankly, if your attitude is going to shift based on what is said about a guy you should know better than any of us do (you've been intimate; we've never met him), you are the one who isn't right for an INTJ. I'm not saying anyone here attacked him (they don't know him). That's not my point. The following is:

    I can give you story after story about all the times people have misunderstood my INTJ and bad-mouthed him, even trying to turn ME (HIS WIFE) against him and be divisive! (stupid people) ((throws another alligator in the moat))((turns weapons off "stun"))

    If this relationship does go long-term, I'd like you to keep this in mind. For his sake. Hubby and I have been to points in our lives when it felt like every person around us hated him (we are activists rooting for a controversial, local cause). To be truly a support for an INTJ, as a life partner should be, one needs to know and love him (and his motives) better than society does. And, you need to remember that about him and trust in it and be his cheerleader when others are in attack mode. If you don't like the INTJ's motives or chosen path, pull him aside in private and clearly, directly talk about what you don't agree with. If an INTJ picks you to be his mate, it is for a really good reason and he trusts your opinion. Pulling him aside in private means you're refusing to give ammunition to the listening/watching attackers.

    If the others can convince the INTJ's best mate that the INTJ is an ogre, then that's the worst betrayal of the heart that an INTJ could ever feel. And, it would stick with him for the rest of his life, imo.

    If you want him, strive to get to know him like this. What concerns me about this match is that you've already alluded to the idea that he's like an addictive drug for you. So, you may choose to join with him without really knowing him to the point where you could accurately explain him to others, if the need arose. Until you can do that, I think you're both best off keeping this at "friends only."

    The ENFP my hubby was drawn to and vice versa? Remember that I was consistently having to explain him to her and, to a lesser degree, her to him. When I wasn't there as a go-between, she'd think awful things of him...and he'd, first, feel helpless and then "back away from the crazy woman" when she'd go off on him about it. Admittedly, she had some mental issues (and you don't strike me that way). But, the potential for misunderstandings is there, and I think that's actually why you're here asking for our perspectives about INTJs. Again, watch yourself that you don't morph who you are to please him nor morph your opinion of him based on what people who don't know him say about him. [No offense to you INTJs in the crowd, but this does seem to be a common problem among people around you. This is why I'm so glad to find so many of you are relatively benevolent. ]



    ^ Excellent post, too (including the lovin' on me ((hug back)) ).

    I hope I didn't come across as harsh, soleil. That wasn't the intent. I'm just concerned, for both your sake and his.
    I never claimed I knew what I was talking about. Yes, I am unsure & confused. If I felt confident about the situation, I would of never posted about it. I have a lot of mix emotions/thoughts about my relationship with him. I believe it's normal to question or ask questions. No one is perfect & it was not my intent to make him look bad....just telling it like it is. It is a messageboard so, I figured I put it out there to get different perspectives on it. It is what it is.


    Thanks for your honesty. You are entitled to your opinion. Anyway, I won't get into it any further. Thanks everyone for your input. It's much appreciated. One.
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  7. #157
    Senior Member TPol's Avatar
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    So, I did come across as harsh. Hard not to do that in writing. Sorry about that. No reason to clam up now or feel like I've chased you off. Wasn't my intent. Your reaction to my post just now is a good indicator of what might be happening between you and this INTJ. I can be pretty pointy around the edges sometimes. I try to soften them, but when I go into blunt mode...well, you see what happens. Your reaction is to close up and stop communicating. Although that may temporarily work to bring harmony back into an interaction with an INT (and I may be one of the harsher ones), it doesn't get anything talked through. See what I mean? He needs to feel like he can be direct with you without your taking it personally. You need to feel like he understands your emotions and intentions behind actions. That won't happen unless you both try to view life from the other's shoes. And, I know that's why you came here and started this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by soleil View Post
    I never claimed I knew what I was talking about. Yes, I am unsure & confused. If I felt confident about the situation, I would of never posted about it.
    I realize that, and I said in my posts (and above) that I realized that's why you were here. I didn't mean to embarrass you or make you feel like you were wrong for posting your questions here. When you're unsure and confused, you should reach out to others. And, there have been a lot of good posts in this thread, imo. I think the exchanges have been good. I was just expressing a possibility from what I've observed here...which is always a danger of happening when posting to a public forum.

    I have a lot of mix emotions/thoughts about my relationship with him.
    Understandable. You're at a different stage in a relationship with an INTJ than I am. Plus, not all INTJs are alike. It can be quite confusing and tough to be in a relationship with an INTJ. I've mentioned that, too. Just trying to give you some tools and thoughts for how to approach the interaction the most effective way.

    I believe it's normal to question or ask questions.
    Quite true. And, on a public forum, those questions get answered publicly by big meanies like me.

    No one is perfect...
    Oh, I don't know about that. I have my moments.

    ...& it was not my intent to make him look bad....just telling it like it is.
    Oh, I know that. I didn't say you or anyone else here was bad-mouthing him or trying to make him look bad. You are trying to understand him. We're analyzing him (and you, for that matter) from afar. You don't strike me as a bad or mean person. No one who has posted in this thread strike me as that way, either. But, in any relationship where a person is seeking to help it a bit and understand the other person, one also needs to look at oneself with clarity and see the places where one's own reactions might be causing barriers to be thrown up. I'm just pointing out the potential pitfalls before you arrive at them so they aren't such a surprise.

    It is a messageboard so, I figured I put it out there to get different perspectives on it. It is what it is.
    Makes sense, and it was/is a good thing to do.

    Thanks for your honesty. You are entitled to your opinion. Anyway, I won't get into it any further. Thanks everyone for your input. It's much appreciated. One.
    This, to me, is clamming up. In your own thread, even. I know I'm a little abrasive at times, but not THAT bad. Again, I didn't mean to embarrass you or make you feel bad. I said what I'd observed, hoping it would help. The reason I'd decided not to post again was because I thought perhaps my posting about the love between my INTJ and I was causing a rose-colored glasses effect on how you were viewing your relationship (rather than a clear-eyed, objective view). And, I was afraid that influence from my direction would only complicate matters for both of you. I have a lot of respect and love for INTJs (and I see that in you, too, in your stated reactions to him). But, I also know from experience that there's another side to living with an INTJ that one should face before committing. And, a person's habitual reactions (especially emotional ones) to people often create an unexpected reaction in an INTJ (and other NTs sometimes, too) that you need to take into account. Unexpected because INTJs are so rare in society, as a percentage. They are different than most. And, yes, I realize that's why you came here. Don't leave because you got an INT reaction. Otherwise, your reason for being here will be thrown out the window.

  8. #158
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Just an observation: soleil, you sound awful sensitive. Not that it's bad thing in itself, but it's something to be aware of.

    As far as INT-communicating goes, TPol's way of presenting things is about as gentle as it will get. So if you are having trouble handling her "gruff", perhaps dating an INTJ isn't for you after all. You'd probably be more comfortable with a feeler. Perhaps another NF?

  9. #159
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    It's just the way I talk/sound...I just come across very "soft", but when I want to be fiesty, watch out ! Btw, I was getting upset.. I am a feeler so, throw me a bone here! I just didn't want to be misunderstood. Tpol, thank you. I actually thought a lot about what you said & it helped me put things into perspective. This whole thread helped me a lot, but it did feel like I was beating a dead horse. I want to hear more about your relationship with your hubby. The dynamic seems very great (oh, & you sound so fucking happy!). I hope to be understood by someone like that one day.

    I have dealt with other NT's & did just fine, but this INTJ is something so beyond what I'm used to. I tend to overanalyze everything. It's just sick. :-x
    Om–ba–ara–minaya–sabaha
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  10. #160
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    How do you absolutely know he is an INTJ?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

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