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  1. #121
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    The spark can be analogous to lust. It's just one of the many components that leads to love.

    EDIT: Let me rephrase. Love can't be attributed to one "ingredient". There is no real guideline. When the right ingredients are added, a synthesis occurs.
    It doesn't have to be, it can be a quite all-encompassing connection.

    I see love as something that *is*, I suppose I'm an essentialist when it comes to love.

    Trying to objectively define love is probably playing a losing game anyway.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    Indeed love itself is a losing game...

    YouTube - Amy Winehouse - Love Is A Losing Game
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
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  3. #123
    Junior Member West's Avatar
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    Love can't just 'be.' If that's the case, then it can disappear just as swiftly as it manifested— which in my mind isn't love.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    then it can disappear just as swiftly as it manifested
    How does that follow from it just being?

    You don't just discard a connection that's touched you profoundly. May carry it with you your entire life.

  5. #125
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    How does that follow from it just being?

    You don't just discard a connection that's touched you profoundly. May carry it with you your entire life.
    I think the point that he was making is that love doesn't exist in ether, rather it is based on something. Something that takes time to grow and solidify before it becomes permanent enough to last a lifetime.

  6. #126
    Junior Member West's Avatar
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    I highly doubt one can establish a profound connection in such a short span of time. Love at first sight is a delusion. Couples that claim to have loved each other from "the first time they met," just got lucky. They just happened to be perfectly compatible after the initial mutual physical attraction.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPol View Post
    At least you put the caveat on there in parentheses. INTJs are perfectly capable of giving emotional support. And, when they do, it is a beautiful gesture. It will be less words and more action, though. And, listening and trying to come up with solutions for you, if he cares about you.



    Have you spent enough time with him to know this about him for certain?



    Tell him. He wouldn't ask if he didn't want to know. He probably realizes it is a question that may get an emotional answer. Hubby doesn't ask such questions to drag a person's heart out there to pick it apart. When he asks, it is a pre-meditated gesture to let the person know he cares.



    Lie and he'll lose respect for you. My INTJ can ferret out the truth quickly and with precision. If anyone lies to him, he'll try to hone in on their motive (and he's good at that). Depending on the motive and how much time and emotional energy he's already invested in the relationship, he'll either start interrogating or walk away.

    For hubby, the more concise I can be, the better he feels. Well, unless we're playing around and trying to evade each other for some reason. Then, he's in his element as we interrogate and cross-examine each other. Still haven't found the dang Christmas present, even though he's flaunting the fact that he's "hidden it in plain sight." Evil man.




    Kinda sounds to me like you're clamming up as much as you're accusing him of doing. Do you want him to bring out the interrogation equipment?



    So, do it. Write out a set of clear, straight-forward questions ("real" ones intermingled with playful ones keeps the mood lighter and more palatable for you both, probably), and start asking them. From what I'm seeing, you peoples are a pretty playful breed, so come at him with some humor. What's he gonna do? Take away your birthday?



    Because he cares about you. He wants to learn about you. He wants to know what makes you tick. If something is bothering you, he wants you to know he's there to listen (and probably give solutions; and that's caring about you, too). He wants to bring out his magnifying lens and see if you sizzle in the sun.



    It is for this reason that I said all of what I did earlier. If you're going to come at him about not being emotionally open to you, he's going to close up. I'd do the same thing. Don't over-complicate things before their time. If you're friends now, don't treat him any different than you would any of your other friends.

    One of you is going to have to give in and take down your mask sometime or this isn't going to work, even as a friendship. It took me a year and a half of dating hubby before I said "I love you" to him. He didn't say it to me until after we were already married for several months. I express things in words much more than he does, but still not as much as I express love with actions. He hardly ever says it in words, but his actions speak volumes every day. I knew/know he loved me without his ever having to say it.

    Read him. Watch him. You be there for him as his friend. If you like him, show him. It really is that simple.



    What action or words are you wanting from him in order for you to know when he "gives you his soul?"



    So, play the role of friend. If there's been no talk of dating only each other, what is keeping you from dating others? If you're reserving yourself for him, perhaps you're more committed than you're letting yourself believe. Is he dating others? Have you asked?



    Maybe it is time to start. He's human. If you're afraid to approach him, then you're giving him a lot of power in your life....probably without his having the foggiest notion you're doing it. If you're not giving him feedback, what is he supposed to do?



    Both hubby and I are the same way. Better make it sincere, specific, and rare in order for it to count as one of those compliments that keeps me afloat. Otherwise, it's only so much fluff.



    Bolded: Are you throwing a flower petal in front of a buffalo here? INTJs don't read minds, even though they like to make you think they can. Next time you see each other (and maybe you should arrange this), go somewhere quiet and relaxing together. Then, just sit there and exist in one spot together for a while. No pressure to talk serious or go deep into discussions. If he asks a question, answer it as honestly and kindly as you can without fretting over whether it'll blow up the relationship. If it does, it does. So be it. Wouldn't you rather it happen now than after you've made a commitment to each other?



    There's wisdom in those words. Remember how long it took me to tell hubby I loved him? Remember how long it took him to say it back? I still say it more often than he does, but he expresses it way more often in actions than I do. Read the actions. Listen to the gestures. He's "speaking" loud enough for US to hear him, girl!



    Exactly! I envy you INTJs and your ability to say it so briefly and elegantly. Here I am with another big post. Sorry, gang. This'll be my last huge one on this thread.

    You called me out, girl! I know, I do clam up around him. He's very intimidating. I never claimed I was right about the way I approached him or took things. That is the reason I created the thread . Now, I have a better understanding. He's not dating others, but he's doing his "thing". He has told me that he doesn't even do that that much. Either way, I don't even care anymore. I did in the beginning, but I've really just detached myself from that feeling. Fyi, even though we are friends, it's more intimate than a regular friendship. There is a strong powerful draw we have for each other (I feel it can be hard for me to breathe ). I am open to a possible future with him. I'm not holding by breathe. As time goes on, I think of it less & less, but the feeling is still there as soon as he calls. When we are in the same space, it's so memorable. I think about him for week straight or more non-stop.

    I have seen him less than 10 times since we've known each other so, I don't really know how much emotion he'd be willing to show. I'm sure he'd be much more open to it. The times we spent together, it was really amazing. We talked about a lot of things ranging from politics, music, reincarnation, conspiracy theories, etc. I am not limiting myself just to him, but I can't lie....he has a lot of pull with me. This is the part that drives me up the wall. I do care. On top of that, I haven't met anyone that interests me. Who knows maybe there will be ...

    I know I sound like I am contradicting myself (I know I am somewhat). It takes so much out of me to approach a person especially someone like him. I hesitate too much. He has often mistook a few things I've said or assumed wrong. I really hate being misunderstood. So, now I noticed I watch my words.

    I know he cares for me. It's just feels like everything is up in the air. Who the hell knows.

    Tpol, I like your detailed responses. Please keep it coming. Did you find that write-up?
    Om–ba–ara–minaya–sabaha
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  8. #128
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    I think the point that he was making is that love doesn't exist in ether, rather it is based on something. Something that takes time to grow and solidify before it becomes permanent enough to last a lifetime.
    Projecting the assumptions underlying your/his model onto mine will obscure the way you see it.

    I think the point that he was making is that love doesn't exist in ether, rather it is based on something. Something that takes time to grow and solidify before it becomes permanent enough to last a lifetime.
    And we're full circle again.

    Time for zzzz.

  9. #129
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soleil View Post
    One thing I learned is that I need to be intellectually stimulated. It's a must.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    To me love = commitment.

    Not sure how you can separate the two.
    I get what you are saying, here. I feel as though commitment is one of the main "actions", or "proofs" of love.

    You can measure the seriousness of love by the level of commitment, (usually).


    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    The spark can be analogous to lust. It's just one of the many components that leads to love.

    EDIT: Let me rephrase. Love can't be attributed to one "ingredient". There is no real guideline. When the right ingredients are added, a synthesis occurs.
    Quote Originally Posted by West View Post
    Love can't just 'be.' If that's the case, then it can disappear just as swiftly as it manifested— which in my mind isn't love.
    You confuse me with these posts.



    So love is a product of an elusive recipe of ingredients, yet love can't just, "be"?

    I believe one can breakdown their love, and that love can be rationalized.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #130
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    you have seen him less than 10 times and he has mentioned marriage stuff... WOW now that is scary no wonder your head is in a mess... The guy is an intoxicating drug and when you are around such it is hard to see things clearly and bad decisions can be made...
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
    Željko Ražnatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    Željko Ražnatovic: to carry your genealogical code??

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