[NT] Harmless banter vs seriously speaking your mind

[Tallulah]

Like others have said, if I don't like you, I probably won't waste my energy bantering with you, and probably wouldn't care enough to try to come up with a way to make you look/feel stupid. I just disconnect and try to excuse myself.

Every once in a while, someone rubs me the wrong way--maybe they're being obnoxious, or hurtful themselves, or just ignorant. In those cases, I might say something that would poke holes in their argument, to let them know they're not fooling me. But I never, and I mean NEVER, make intentionally hurtful comments. I never make a comment with the intent of hurting or harming a person's self-esteem. That's just spiteful, immature behavior.

 

[nozflubber]

Harmless banter vs seriously speaking your mind ?

I'm shamelessly the latter, because both my philosophy studies and my time in the Marines demand that I hold integrity, intellectual and personal alike, to the highest regard. People hate me for it, but that's my burden

But I also use sarcasm a lot.... it can be hard to tell at times I suppose

 

[Kora]

I'm too distant for getting involved in 'banters', actually, I always come as cold and aloof. When I dislike someone, I just avoid talking with that person. But I try to do it in a elegant way, because that kind of conflict is tedious and boring. It's not like I want to waste my time in that person. Gratuitous arguing is pointless.
Though, if someone really pisses me off, I counter with cynism and disdain. But it's very different of my playful jokes. It's my way of showing that that person has crossed the line.Also, sometimes I hid my real (and offensive) thoughts in a joke. I can enjoy making fun of someone I specially dislike in a discrete way.

As many, I actually banter with closer people. I can try to piss off some of my friends just for fun, but I never intend to harm them. Though, my sense of humor can be very black and cruel, and sometimes I try to push the limits. I usually know what I'm saying and what effect is going to have in others. But I'd nevery try to harm my dear ones, and I know when to apologize (even if I can't see what I did wrong actually).

In the end, if you have doubts, just check what kind of relationship you have with the NT. Most of the times they can be actually trying to 'tickle' you, but it's because that kind of mind games are appealing to us. If they're snarky, snark them back.
Just don't become their 'toy', and show them where's the limit if you don't like something.

 

[Grayscale]

What are the telltale signs that we shouldn't take it serious, and when do you actually mean it?

what difference does it make... is it only when they do mean it that it hurts your feelings? wouldnt that mean you are affording them power over your emotions?

 

[Amargith]

what difference does it make... is it only when they do mean it that it hurts your feelings? wouldnt that mean you are affording them power over your emotions?

Thanks for replying everyone. Actually there's two reasons for this thread. I seek understanding, and through understanding I actually seek to stop giving them that power I'm hoping that understanding it will end my confusion as for me I often do not know how to react. Should I laugh? Be offended? Give them a piece of my mind? Or is it all a big misunderstanding?

So the best tactic is to just return the favor in equal intensity? You prefer
someone showing you that you best not step over their boundaries? Is that how T's get to know each other? Or do you sometimes also end up ending each others feelings? And what about when people tell you that you hurt them? Is that a good tactic or do you lose your patience/respect for them?

 

[Grayscale]

Thanks for replying everyone. Actually there's two reasons for this thread. I seek understanding, and through understanding I actually seek to stop giving them that power I'm hoping that understanding it will end my confusion as for me I often do not know how to react. Should I laugh? Be offended? Give them a piece of my mind? Or is it all a big misunderstanding?

we are very associative... to understand this, you have to unravel the associations that lead to your emotional response.

if they meant it, then either they are being hurtful on purpose because they dislike you or they just plain dislike you and are expressing that. the fact that you respond differently based on how the person intended it seems to suggest that you project a value on what they think of you. this value is what gives them power over your emotions... because they have something that you think you need, and when they say something and you lose that value, you feel hurt.

when someone says that, try to see it for what it is... they dislike you, but that isn't a bad thing... it is just reality. perhaps you'd like to change their opinion of you, but feeling hurt won't help that. your emotional energy is better spent elsewhere--perhaps appreciating those who's opinion does and should matter to you.

if you need something to think about, try to figure out why you give away your sense of what is important instead of "investing" it. there is no "right" way to react, and it is not about how you react that matters, but why.

 

[kuranes]

Certain kinds of people use the "I was just joking. Didn't you get that ?" as a convenient back door, regardless if they actually were joking originally.

 

[substitute]

Sometimes it's both. I think quite often T's (definitely it's a normal male thing and the majority, etc...), being not generally given to value judgement, point things out, bring things out into the open, that they've observed about their friend or whatever, but the reason it's done in "banter mode" is a sort of subconscious way of saying, yeah, I notice you do this and it does make you a bit of a prick, but we can just laugh about it, it's no big deal, it doesn't stop us being pals and I don't dislike you for it.

It can cause problems when we do it with F's or people who are used to dealing with F's, and they assume there's a personal thing in there somewhere, that the impersonal critique that's implied in the joke is meant as a personal value judgement - you do a thing that's unwise, that's bad, that makes you a bad person, therefore I don't like you.

But those sorts of judgements aren't generally what T's are all about... it's more a "logic judgement" or "utility judgement", as much as to say if you carry on that way pal, it's gonna end in tears sooner or later - or, if you do stuff like that then it won't help further your objectives. That's why it's generally done in a light hearted way, because there isn't any animosity or judgement in it even when it is actual real criticism, usually.

 

[Salomé]

^ Congrats, Kuranes!
You've officially reached the point where your sig is longer than your posts.

EDIT

It can cause problems when we do it with F's or people who are used to dealing with F's, and they assume there's a personal thing in there somewhere, that the impersonal critique that's implied in the joke is meant as a personal value judgement - you do a thing that's unwise, that's bad, that makes you a bad person, therefore I don't like you.

That is effing annoying! I hate Fs!

 

[nightning]

Thanks for replying everyone. Actually there's two reasons for this thread. I seek understanding, and through understanding I actually seek to stop giving them that power I'm hoping that understanding it will end my confusion as for me I often do not know how to react. Should I laugh? Be offended? Give them a piece of my mind? Or is it all a big misunderstanding?

So the best tactic is to just return the favor in equal intensity? You preferS
someone showing you that you best not step over their boundaries? Is that how T's get to know each other? Or do you sometimes also end up ending each others feelings? And what about when people tell you that you hurt them? Is that a good tactic or do you lose your patience/respect for them?

You react however you feel you should. If you're offended... say so. If what's said was meant to be a joke, I'll let you know right a way. I guess there's just no textbook method for reading people's intent. As you said, overtime you'll figure the person out... but really, you're better off responding however you feel like and let both parties adjust to each other's conversational style then to try bending over backwards accommodating somebody else.

 

[Kasper]

Like other INTPs have said it's pretty much always harmless banter for me, I would disengage rather than say something harsh.

So the best tactic is to just return the favor in equal intensity? You prefer someone showing you that you best not step over their boundaries? Is that how T's get to know each other? Or do you sometimes also end up ending each others feelings? And what about when people tell you that you hurt them? Is that a good tactic or do you lose your patience/respect for them?

If you want it to stop don't encourage by reciprocating, it could be seen as a challenge, they're fun

Someone I don't really know telling me I've hurt their feelings would prolly result in me distancing myself from them, but then I wouldn't have been serious in the first place.

If this person is being serious a blunt approach would be best imo.

 

[kuranes]

^ Congrats, Kuranes!

Why thank you, blue !

 

[colmena]

I'm now offering an NT smushing service. It's a lot like place putting, but requires more elbow grease afterwards.

Now with 50% off masochists!

 

[Salomé]

^ Sounds kinky!

I'm in.

 

[Nihilen]

I am always serious.

 

[01011010]

I supposedly make hurtful comments (blunt, direct statements) on occasion, but I'm rarely aware of doing so. I think it just boils down to perception. As someone else stated, don't take it personally.

 

[Amargith]

if you need something to think about, try to figure out why you give away your sense of what is important instead of "investing" it. there is no "right" way to react, and it is not about how you react that matters, but why.

I guess in a first contact situation, it's more that I'm looking to connect with someone and it frustrates me when I cannot make that happen. It can feel a bit like being stuck in a dark cold basement. And it makes me wonder what I can do to change it.

Certain kinds of people use the "I was just joking. Didn't you get that ?" as a convenient back door, regardless if they actually were joking originally.

Psst, F's use that too

That's why it's generally done in a light hearted way, because there isn't any animosity or judgement in it even when it is actual real criticism, usually.

Well it is hard to take it as light hearted, when you notice that there's a core of truth hidden in it and when it is formulated as a personal attack (I know, you guys don't see it that way). It helps that you SMILE when saying those things btw

That is effing annoying! I hate Fs!

Point in case. I've seen you around the board a bit, so I've gotten used to it. But you sometimes tell someone they're annoying, lame, whatever without saying why and how they can avoid getting on your nerves in the future. It's a bit..intimidating when directed at you
Now I sorta know you're just venting about things you find annoying and you don't hold it against the person for a long time, though I'm guessing that if they constantly piss you off you will steer clear of them. I'm trying to avoid the initial confusion I felt when meeting you by trying to understand you guys

You react however you feel you should. If you're offended... say so. If what's said was meant to be a joke, I'll let you know right a way. I guess there's just no textbook method for reading people's intent. As you said, overtime you'll figure the person out... but really, you're better off responding however you feel like and let both parties adjust to each other's conversational style then to try bending over backwards accommodating somebody else.

I guess I'm trying to smooth out the kinks. I have no intention of bending over backwards, but I'm hoping that by sorta walking a mile in your shoes by hearing your side of the story, to understand it better. I've also noticed that when asking if you did something wrong, as you suggested, you often get to deal with some serious denial I know that this is different for everyone, so I realize that there isn't going to be an easy answer.

Like other INTPs have said it's pretty much always harmless banter for me, I would disengage rather than say something harsh.
If you want it to stop don't encourage by reciprocating, it could be seen as a challenge, they're fun

Oh I don't mind playing when I know the game rules. I might be an NF but I'm not made of glass. But first I wanna make sure I understand the rules. I'd feel kinda ridiculous bantering with someone who was actually telling me in a 'subtle' way to go away already.

I supposedly make hurtful comments (blunt, direct statements) on occasion, but I'm rarely aware of doing so. I think it just boils down to perception. As someone else stated, don't take it personally.

Well that seems to be the general advice and I want to thank everyone for answering my question. I'm gonna go and ponder on this some more now...

 

[kuranes]

Psst, F's use that too

You'll notice that I didn't restrict the behavior to "NT's" ( in this thread, anyway ), because I don't usually choose to divide people up that way. There are people who describe themselves as "NT's" who don't play these kind of games. I've only rarely joined in on the "type bragging" that is engaged in routinely on the board, and am indeed uncertain of my own type.

However, I wouldn't say that all of my disagreements with people here are strictly related to "misunderstanding" them. Sometimes we just flat out disagree, with each knowing the other's stance to at least a basic de-gree.

 

[norepinephrine]

I guess in a first contact situation, it's more that I'm looking to connect with someone and it frustrates me when I cannot make that happen. It can feel a bit like being stuck in a dark cold basement. And it makes me wonder what I can do to change it.

I guess I'm trying to smooth out the kinks. I have no intention of bending over backwards, but I'm hoping that by sorta walking a mile in your shoes by hearing your side of the story, to understand it better. I've also noticed that when asking if you did something wrong, as you suggested, you often get to deal with some serious denial I know that this is different for everyone, so I realize that there isn't going to be an easy answer.

I don't think you can change it. In fact, don't even try. Situations where someone is trying to connect with me make me itch all over.

And if you were to ask me "if you did something wrong" (I assume that's what the above means, or is it the other way 'round?), you will hear some serious denial, because it's generally not that you are doing anything wrong. It's simply that something isn't working for me.

 

[Anja]

What I see in the up-and-coming generation is that the clever ripost, put-down, whatever, has become so common place that it confuses everyone. And, I might add, has lost its punch!

We're a group of people facing a lot of uncertainty and, I think, carrying a great deal of unhappiness in spite of all our material gains.

This seems to have led to a devil-may-care attitude which reflects our own unhappiness and fosters it in others. It's a negative way of interacting, perhaps meant to relieve feelings of negativity, yet actually increasing them.

Those who like to insult others are having to up the ante considerably just to be noticed in the cacaphony of insults which pass for camaraderie these days.

*Put on spectacles and pontificates*

"Now, in my day, when we wanted to insult someone we had one well-placed zing. And it meant something. Yeah. We knew how to use an insult in a way that made it valuable. And we liked it that way. Yeah, we did. We did it the right way."

*Mutters*

"Damn new generation, wasting insults. They think insults are free for the taking. . . Can't teach 'em a blame thing."

*Hobbles off toward the bathroom.*