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Thread: NTs and God

  1. #431
    S Saiyan God Mace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Well if you don't mean repeatable and falsifiable only in the scientific sense, then that changes the discussion entirely. On the topic of God's existence there is a mountainload of anecdotal evidence. I cannot even begin to scratch the surface about how much anecdotal evidence there is. The question is really whether anecdotal evidence is acceptable evidence.
    I support that.

  2. #432
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    This question can't be answered without defining what God is.

    If God is some vague, undefined power whose only real defined characteristic is that it's more powerful than we are, then sure, why the hell not? No real data either way on this. It's important to note that "power beyond our understanding" does not necessarily indicate omnipotence or omniscience or the ability to create entire universes or any of that. "God" could just be some alien race that's waaaaay more advanced than ours and has discovered how to set in motion the events by which life ends up being created. Or it could just be the sum of all natural forces in the universe. Who's to say? If you're going to go with a definition this vague, "God" can be anything you want him to be, and you can find him anywhere if you look hard enough. When I tell people I'm an atheist, this isn't the God I'm arguing against, yet "highly spiritual" NF-types always get pissy with me for it.

    If God is a conscious entity who enforces specific moral directives, actively manipulates worldly events based on requests from his followers, insists on extremely specific methods of worship and will send anyone who doesn't agree with them to eternal suffering after death, and generally runs around acting like a closed-minded, short-sighted jackass (aka the SJ God), then no, it's obviously bullshit.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #433
    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Well if you don't mean repeatable and falsifiable only in the scientific sense, then that changes the discussion entirely. On the topic of God's existence there is a mountainload of anecdotal evidence. I cannot even begin to scratch the surface about how much anecdotal evidence there is. The question is really whether anecdotal evidence is acceptable evidence.
    Personally, for me anecdotal evidence is useful for getting me to consider a position. If many people hold a certain view, then I want to know what all the fuss is about and whether I agree or not. However, I tend not to trust it beyond that. Hard evidence is required for me to believe one way or another.

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    So, what is it about science or YOUR approach (rather) to help make you applaused at the likelihood of there being an Omnipotent God? Or not? The 'Truth'?

  5. #435
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Well if you don't mean repeatable and falsifiable only in the scientific sense, then that changes the discussion entirely. On the topic of God's existence there is a mountainload of anecdotal evidence. I cannot even begin to scratch the surface about how much anecdotal evidence there is. The question is really whether anecdotal evidence is acceptable evidence.
    Personal accounts can only establish that something occurs or has occurred. In the situation you posed, personal accounts were able to establish, within reasonable doubt, that a murder had occurred at the hands of a given man. In, for example, science, numerous researchers can verify that a phenomenon which has been used as the basis of evidence occurs by repeating the experiment or attempting other experiments.

    If there were, indeed, "mountainloads" of people who personally witnessed a deity creating the universe, I would certainly believe in the existence of a deity. Such is not the case.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  6. #436
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Personally, for me anecdotal evidence is useful for getting me to consider a position. If many people hold a certain view, then I want to know what all the fuss is about and whether I agree or not. However, I tend not to trust it beyond that. Hard evidence is required for me to believe one way or another.
    What about things that, by their very design, can never have hard evidence for or against them? Surely you must make a decision as to some sort of guess, at least, even if you can't have absolute certainty either way.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    What about things that, by their very design, can never have hard evidence for or against them? Surely you must make a decision as to some sort of guess, at least, even if you can't have absolute certainty either way.
    The existence of a deity could certainly be verified. If it is the Deists' deity, this will come to light in time via inquiry into the nature of our universe. If it is the Theist's deity, we will, at some point, witness laws of nature being willfully and systematically violated by an unseen force toward a consistent and directive purpose.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

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    rawr Costrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    What about things that, by their very design, can never have hard evidence for or against them? Surely you must make a decision as to some sort of guess, at least, even if you can't have absolute certainty either way.
    Then I do not believe in them. Like Russell's Teapot. There is no evidence one way or another, so I do not believe in it. I do admit the possibility of it being true, however. In the case that no theory has any evidence, then I take the position of "I don't know", for example, the origins of the universe. However, these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. As it applies to this thread, I do not know how the universe began, but I do know that I have seen no evidence for theistic explanations. Therefore, technically, I would be an agnostic atheist.

  9. #439
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Costrin View Post
    Then I do not believe in them. Like Russell's Teapot. There is no evidence one way or another, so I do not believe in it. I do admit the possibility of it being true, however. In the case that no theory has any evidence, then I take the position of "I don't know", for example, the origins of the universe. However, these aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. As it applies to this thread, I do not know how the universe began, but I do know that I have seen no evidence for theistic explanations. Therefore, technically, I would be an agnostic atheist.
    That sounds absolutely logical and I couldn't agree more. (No sarcasm, I find no fault in that position at all.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #440
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    The existence of a deity could certainly be verified. If it is the Deists' deity, this will come to light in time via inquiry into the nature of our universe. If it is the Theist's deity, we will, at some point, witness laws of nature being willfully and systematically violated by an unseen force toward a consistent and directive purpose.
    Hmm, I guess that's true. But until such a time at which that happens, we are kind of forced to assume that there is no conscious deity, now don't we?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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