User Tag List

First 16242526272836 Last

Results 251 to 260 of 505

Thread: NTs and God

  1. #251
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    260

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Headstrong View Post
    I read maybe the first two pages of the thread. Sorry, don't have time for the rest. Here are my direct answers to the OP's questions.

    What do NTs think of God?
    He is absolutely amazing, perfect, and unfailing in his love, grace, and mercy.

    How do they relate to Him ?
    I can't relate God because He is perfect and I am not. I can and do, however, love Him to the best of my ability more and more everyday.

    Three Christian-culture NTs I know admit either indifference or little understanding of what they call "religion."
    When I was younger, I had a really tough time grasping the concept. I accepted Christ, but I didn't know Him. It wasn't until I actually entered a relationship with Him a year or two ago that I understood. Religion is ridiculous and corrupt. It's all about the relationship.

    Is it possible for an NT to be interested in God ?
    Yes, I'm not only interested, I'm completely in love with Him.
    I believe in God as you do but I can't say I've ever been as enthusiastic about it as you are in this post. I've seen many believers express copious amounts of emotion about their relationship with God but, always found it to be somewhat disingenuous. It's both encouraging and frightening to see someone who I presume functions in a way similar to me speak of God in such a manner. It's just something I don't see myself doing (maybe I'm just not ready...).

  2. #252
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sp
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Just like people have subjectively used God for bad purposes; people in reaction then don't want him to exist, and thus will bend the evidence against him.
    Could somebody else please point out the fallaciousness of this thinking? I'm getting tired of pointing out the same thing.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

  3. #253
    Member Headstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JonJT View Post
    I believe in God as you do but I can't say I've ever been as enthusiastic about it as you are in this post. I've seen many believers express copious amounts of emotion about their relationship with God but, always found it to be somewhat disingenuous. It's both encouraging and frightening to see someone who I presume functions in a way similar to me speak of God in such a manner. It's just something I don't see myself doing (maybe I'm just not ready...).
    I would have never imagined myself having this kind of passion for God. I used to hate church because the people there seemed so fake and often times their lifestyle in and out of church were completely different. My mom and I did plenty of 'church hopping' when I was younger and I think that reinforced my mindset.

    I started going to my friend's church back in May of '08...and let me tell you, I have never loved church so much in my life! I have seen the power of God work there. It's incredible. In the 9 months I have been attending, I have received two or three visions from God during worship. There is no way I could have 'dreamed' these up myself. When I experienced them, there was no doubt in my mind that they were from God. I just knew.

    I think it's been about a year now, but my best friend tore her ACL completely in half as well as some other damage from playing basketball and the doctors said it would never heal on its own. Surgery was her only hope if she ever wanted to be active again.

    A bunch of her college friends came up to her house for spring break and one of them went to her church one Sunday. Her friend received a vision that she was going to heal someone. She never told anyone about it. My friend was also asking God to send her the person who was to heal her. They both went back down to college that week.

    A few weeks later, her college friend approached her and said she was supposed to heal her. She used vegetable oil, tongues, etc to do her (or God's) thing, and now my friend can run, jump, play basketball and whatever other sport her heart desires. The doctors have no explanation for this. Her ACL was completely torn in half. You'd never know that now.

    No doubt this has helped to increase my faith and passion for God. His power is undeniable. It's okay to be scared because we can't physically touch God. He requires faith and belief, and that is hard for everyone to do. But once you begin to see how He works, the fear and hesitation melt away and pure passion takes over.
    There are two types of people in this world, sheep and sharks. Be a shark. Sharks are winners and they don't look back 'cause they don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.

    Headstrong: You're learning the ways of...me!
    INTP Friend: Yay!
    INTP Friend: Wait....NOOOOO

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who do not have it.
    -George Bernard Shaw

    Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
    -Plato

  4. #254
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Headstrong View Post
    I would have never imagined myself having this kind of passion for God. I used to hate church because the people there seemed so fake and often times their lifestyle in and out of church were completely different. My mom and I did plenty of 'church hopping' when I was younger and I think that reinforced my mindset.

    I started going to my friend's church back in May of '08...and let me tell you, I have never loved church so much in my life! I have seen the power of God work there. It's incredible. In the 9 months I have been attending, I have received two or three visions from God during worship. There is no way I could have 'dreamed' these up myself. When I experienced them, there was no doubt in my mind that they were from God. I just knew.

    I think it's been about a year now, but my best friend tore her ACL completely in half as well as some other damage from playing basketball and the doctors said it would never heal on its own. Surgery was her only hope if she ever wanted to be active again.

    A bunch of her college friends came up to her house for spring break and one of them went to her church one Sunday. Her friend received a vision that she was going to heal someone. She never told anyone about it. My friend was also asking God to send her the person who was to heal her. They both went back down to college that week.

    A few weeks later, her college friend approached her and said she was supposed to heal her. She used vegetable oil, tongues, etc to do her (or God's) thing, and now my friend can run, jump, play basketball and whatever other sport her heart desires. The doctors have no explanation for this. Her ACL was completely torn in half. You'd never know that now.

    No doubt this has helped to increase my faith and passion for God. His power is undeniable. It's okay to be scared because we can't physically touch God. He requires faith and belief, and that is hard for everyone to do. But once you begin to see how He works, the fear and hesitation melt away and pure passion takes over.
    What's your take on the power of the human mind (subconscious)?

  5. #255
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    EsTP
    Enneagram
    6w7
    Posts
    1,996

    Default

    I consider myself to be an Agnostic.
    I wouldn't rule out the belief that there is a God but I'm not one to affirm that "There is a God."
    However, it is possible for NTs to be very religious.
    I have an INTJ friend who is a devout Catholic- and yes, I am 99.9% sure he's an INTJ.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
    Enneagram Type: 3w4 sp/sx

  6. #256
    Member Headstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    What's your take on the power of the human mind (subconscious)?
    As it pertains to healing and/or God in general?

    I wasn't sure, so I was looking around and stumbled on this website. Tackling The Subconscious Mind

    "For instance, suppose there is silent unseen and unknown tendency to take alcohol, or to smoke, in our subconscious mind. Necessary conditions in the form of a friend, a bar, a cigarette vendor, etc. would bring forth the desire to drink or to smoke; and we are in there!

    Another person has a latent or dormant tendency to seek God. The necessary external stimuli in the form of a scriptural text, meeting a Holy person, visiting a temple (or Church,) etc. attracts him/her, and what a wonder! the person is totally immersed in various spiritual practices, he becomes God centered.
    There never was any conscious effort or desire or thought to drink, to smoke, or to seek God. But fulfillment of necessary conditions was responsible for activating impressions in subconscious mind, and thus followed a particular behaviour."

    So, from what I gather, you are wondering if I believe that some people are predispositioned to believing in God while some are not? And that external events also propel or inhibit this process?
    There are two types of people in this world, sheep and sharks. Be a shark. Sharks are winners and they don't look back 'cause they don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.

    Headstrong: You're learning the ways of...me!
    INTP Friend: Yay!
    INTP Friend: Wait....NOOOOO

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who do not have it.
    -George Bernard Shaw

    Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
    -Plato

  7. #257
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ISFJ
    Posts
    6,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Headstrong View Post
    As it pertains to healing and/or God in general?

    I wasn't sure, so I was looking around and stumbled on this website. Tackling The Subconscious Mind

    "For instance, suppose there is silent unseen and unknown tendency to take alcohol, or to smoke, in our subconscious mind. Necessary conditions in the form of a friend, a bar, a cigarette vendor, etc. would bring forth the desire to drink or to smoke; and we are in there!

    Another person has a latent or dormant tendency to seek God. The necessary external stimuli in the form of a scriptural text, meeting a Holy person, visiting a temple (or Church,) etc. attracts him/her, and what a wonder! the person is totally immersed in various spiritual practices, he becomes God centered.
    There never was any conscious effort or desire or thought to drink, to smoke, or to seek God. But fulfillment of necessary conditions was responsible for activating impressions in subconscious mind, and thus followed a particular behaviour."

    So, from what I gather, you are wondering if I believe that some people are predispositioned to believing in God while some are not? And that external events also propel or inhibit this process?
    Sorry, I wasn't very specific. I mean both the healing episode (the actual physical explanation for such a cure) and your willingness to attribute extraordinary happenings to God. As subjective as it is, just as "optimism" can be a different mental filter with which to grasp the world around us, so can dogma, imo.

    I'm an agnostic (used to be a christian, well, never 100%). I believe in the power of the human subconscious as a way to influence our physical well-being and other things.

  8. #258
    I'm a star. Kangirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Posts
    1,470

    Default

    Could somebody else please point out the fallaciousness of this thinking? I'm getting tired of pointing out the same thing.
    I'm not sure it's worth it anymore in this thread. Either one recognizes that statement as fallacious, or one doesn't, and if one doesn't...I don't know how much hope there is in trying to explain it. We might have more luck trying to convince a brick wall.

    It's interesting to me how many people who 'believe', and who have posted in this thread, feel the need to use logic to defend their belief. I asked it before but didn't get a satisfactory answer - why isn't faith enough? Isn't that the special or wonderful thing about faith? Isn't that the *point*, in a way? That one has it regardless of empirical evidence? The most serious religious people I know are always the ones who have a quiet faith. It's those people I envy, in some ways. And it's those people I am able to have long, detailed conversations with in which neither party gets worked up or shouty. I respect religious faith and I don't like it when believers get attacked or ridiculed for believing. But faulty logic *does* bother me, and there is a crapload of it floating around here.

    Btw, Headstrong, if your friend with the torn ACL can provide before and after x-rays (or whatever they use to look at ligaments), and prove there was no medical intervention, I think you should submit that business to the Vatican. Isn't it ACL tears that 100% never heal on their own? I know there's some ligament in the knee that, once torn, will never heal unless you get it replaced with another one (from a cadaver...creeepy!). I know you believe it happened, but I'd need to see those x-rays and medical records.
    "Only an irrational dumbass, would burn Jews." - Jaguar

    "please give concise answers in plain English" - request from Provoker

  9. #259
    Member Headstrong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Sorry, I wasn't very specific. I mean both the healing episode (the actual physical explanation for such a cure) and your willingness to attribute extraordinary happenings to God. As subjective as it is, just as "optimism" can be a different mental filter with which to grasp the world around us, so can dogma, imo.

    I'm an agnostic (used to be a christian, well, never 100%). I believe in the power of the human subconscious as a way to influence our physical well-being and other things.
    Itís okay, thatís why I asked.

    There is no doubt in my mind that a positive or ďoptimisticĒ attitude influences everyday life and contexts such as this.

    When God created human beings, he did so with a desire to know each and everyone one of us in hopes to develop a relationship. So in a way, I think perhaps all of our subconscious are ďwiredĒ to search out a higher power, so that we would know God. Perhaps thatís why the majority of us question our origin and purpose at least once in our lifetime? I think that there are external events, which can alter our perception and cause our beliefs to lean one way or the other. God gave us the choice as to whether we want to pursue a relationship with him or not.

    With the actual physical explanation for such a cure, I donít think the doctors attributed it to any higher power, perhaps, but they know that there was no way it healed on its own. Willpower alone could not heal it.

    As for my willingness to attribute extraordinary happenings to God, sure, when you pray about something and it happens, that reinforces your belief in God. When you pray and (it seems like) nothing happens or you donít get what you want, then that would understandably take away from your faith in Him.

    I think the latter sentence is the reason why there is such discouragement. I know a guy who is paralyzed from the neck down from a tractor-trailer collision. He has been confined to an electric wheel chair for I think over 15 years now? God told him that he will be healed and it will happen when itís just him and God. All this time heís been waiting. Thatís discouraging. But itís that hope that keeps him going and alive for his son. (Kind of went off track here.)

    I willingly attribute these extraordinary happenings to God because I know that humans are not capable of such acts. I have seen people healed time and time again. God has spoken to me and given me supernatural visions. He is currently using me to lead an atheist/agnostic ENTJ male friend to Him. This boy is one stubborn analytical person, but I love him to death. He has never wanted to hear a thing about God. The other night we were talking and basically I told witnessed to him in text messages. (Luckily he fell asleep, so he couldnít respond and I had freedom to write down everything.) The words just kept flowing from my fingers. I sent over 12 in a row, 160 character limit in each, and I never thought of what to say. I could not think of what to say on my own. I knew it was from God and he arranged this. Funny thing is, days later, this kid is asking me questions about God. He wouldnít be if he wasnít at least curious, no? There is no way I could have created this situation on my own.

    Hopefully I answered your question. Feel free point out where if I didnít, ask for clarification, or ask more questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    Btw, Headstrong, if your friend with the torn ACL can provide before and after x-rays (or whatever they use to look at ligaments), and prove there was no medical intervention, I think you should submit that business to the Vatican. Isn't it ACL tears that 100% never heal on their own? I know there's some ligament in the knee that, once torn, will never heal unless you get it replaced with another one (from a cadaver...creeepy!). I know you believe it happened, but I'd need to see those x-rays and medical records.
    Yes, hers was completely torn in half. It would have never healed on its own. I don't know if that is the ligament you are talking about, but I know this was the case. I know it's hard to believe, and I wish I could show you medical evidence. Or at the very least, have you meet her. The most she has is the before x-ray. God told her she was not to have an after x-ray done. Talk about faith, eh? Had she disobeyed God and gotten those after x-rays, who knows what could have happened to her knee. I think its better to have a healed knee and no physical evidence than to have physical evidence and perhaps something else not so nice. If God felt the need to prove himself to her and everyone else, he would have told her to get an x-ray done. God does not need to prove himself to anyone. I understand why you are skeptical, though. I would not have believed it if it didn't happen to someone to whom I am so close to.
    There are two types of people in this world, sheep and sharks. Be a shark. Sharks are winners and they don't look back 'cause they don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.

    Headstrong: You're learning the ways of...me!
    INTP Friend: Yay!
    INTP Friend: Wait....NOOOOO

    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who do not have it.
    -George Bernard Shaw

    Wise men talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
    -Plato

  10. #260
    The elder Holmes Mycroft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sp
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kangirl View Post
    It's interesting to me how many people who 'believe', and who have posted in this thread, feel the need to use logic to defend their belief. I asked it before but didn't get a satisfactory answer - why isn't faith enough? Isn't that the special or wonderful thing about faith? Isn't that the *point*, in a way? That one has it regardless of empirical evidence? The most serious religious people I know are always the ones who have a quiet faith. It's those people I envy, in some ways. And it's those people I am able to have long, detailed conversations with in which neither party gets worked up or shouty. I respect religious faith and I don't like it when believers get attacked or ridiculed for believing. But faulty logic *does* bother me, and there is a crapload of it floating around here.
    I am certainly less bothered by those who are prepared to own up to the fact that their beliefs are irrational than by those who attempt to dress them up in faulty logic and proclaim them rational.

    If the tenants of their beliefs, when taken as written and put into practice, weren't so dangerous and destructive, they wouldn't bother me at all.

    As a side note for the European members of the reading audience: if you're curious as to why American politics are such a surreal mess, one large reason is that people who believe the sort of thing Headstrong is going on about above constitute an entire voting bloc.
    Dost thou love Life? Then do not squander Time; for that's the Stuff Life is made of.

    -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, June 1746 --

Similar Threads

  1. [NT] NTs and time
    By Natrushka in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 01-25-2010, 02:56 PM
  2. [NT] NTs and controlling thoughts
    By Varelse in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-08-2007, 02:10 PM
  3. [NT] Berens' comments on NTs and conflict
    By rivercrow in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-13-2007, 05:05 PM
  4. [NT] NTs and Concentration
    By Varelse in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-23-2007, 01:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO