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  1. #101
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyTick View Post
    OHH MY!!! LOL

    I was over my parents house a few days ago and they were actually the first people I asked!

    I asked them about my childhood ...

    My mom said I was the cutest cold-hearted baby she'd ever seen.

    My dad said I was always full of shit when I was a teenager, but somehow I had this supernatural skill to extract anything I ever wanted out of them.

    He said I'd probably end up being a shrewd businessman one day and I'd be reaping millions of dollars but I'd never be able to experience the company of good friends or true love.

    And I though I was a good boy that never did anything wrong!

    I never though of myself being manipulative, just extremely persuasive.

    Do you ENTJs out there think likewise? Are your persuasion and debating skills viewed by others as a manipulation tactic?
    I think people mistake Manipulation with Persuasion.

    I think manipulation has a foundation of deceit in it. I hate deceiving people. Not my thing.

    But I am persuasive.

    if I want to know, or get something done; it WILL happen. one way or the other, no matter how long it takes me. I will find a way to get it, without lying or manipulating.

    btw, my mom said the same thing about me this morning. " you were such a cute, clever kid. The devils offspring, but still cute, so long as no one got on your bad side..

  2. #102
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Somehow you guys just get people to do things. And then when we're doing *that thing*, we'll go, "Wait, how did I end up doing this for that ENTJ? I should be home now working on my stuff." We have no idea how we got into it that deep or got that involved in it.

    One example I can think of off the top of my head is when my ENTJ friend is holding one of his meetings (I've discussed this on the forums before), he will text people and say, "We look forward to seeing you at the meeting tonight."

    Because I know him so well, I know that this text message means:
    (a) I'm expected to make this a priority. He is politely saying, "Be there!"
    (b) He wants a text response (presumably *right now*) letting him know if I will or will not be there so that he can count me in or out.

    To me, the first few times I got this message it seemed manipulative to me because I recognized right away that there was much more to his message than just simply, "We look forward to seeing you there." He wouldn't bother texting people if it was just to say "See you tonight!" One time I didn't respond and didn't go to the meeting and I got a phone call later that night asking if I had received his text message and what had caused me to miss the meeting.

    To me, his text was just a statement: Look forward to seeing you there! And so I treated it as such. I didn't respond. I knew there was more to his text, but, if he's laying ground rules, I'm going to lay some also. If you want to ask if I'm going to be there, then just ask it. Don't go through the side door. Knock on the front door and you'll get the answer you're looking for.

    If you want to ask if I'm going to be make it and if you want to emphasize the importance of the meeting, then just come out and say it. Say, "This meeting is crucial to what we are doing, we are going to cover some very important bases in this meeting, and I need you to be there. Are you going to make it?" Then I'd respond with either, "Yeah, I'll be there." Or, "No, I won't be there. Deal with it ()."

    But, the way he phrases it is so subtle. People know him and how serious he is about this, so when they get that text, they cringe. Instead of thinking, "Oh, he's looking forward to seeing me. I'm an important piece of this puzzle", they are really thinking, "Darn. I really have other things going on tonight but I know he's relentless and if I don't show up, he'll call me tonight like a used car salesman and, blah, blah, blah." So, people just end up going to the meeting in order to keep the peace and stay on his good side.

    That's how it feels like manipulation. He's totally and completely nice about it, but if you don't show up to the "unpaid" meeting and put your energy behind this cause, you know you're going to hear about it from him. And so people just conform in order to avoid the trouble/headache of having to explain why they didn't want to come. Or that they'd rather watch their favorite sitcom than attend his meeting.

    I know him, so I know his intentions are good in getting people involved, it's just "how" he does it sometimes. Sometimes I just have to be direct with him and say, "Aint makin' it tonight! Got too much going on. Have to catch up with you next week." And he'll say, "Hmmm, OK. What do you have going on?" I sometimes feel like saying, "Absolutely nothing. I just don't want to go to the meeting tonight." But, I somehow intuit that this might somehow hurt his feelings somewhere deep down in a place that nobody has seen before because he cares so much about the cause.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  3. #103
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theplacesyoullgo View Post
    Your gut feelings, please. Are ENTJs more manipulative than any other type?

    I'm ENTJ (moderately weak E, very strong N) and have been accused of being manipulative a handful of times in my life - but I wasn't consciously trying to manipulate anyone.
    I think that many ENTJ's are manipulative without even trying to be that way or realizing that they are doing it. ENFJ's can be the same way. They can accidentally be manipulative with the best of intentions.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  4. #104
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Somehow you guys just get people to do things. And then when we're doing *that thing*, we'll go, "Wait, how did I end up doing this for that ENTJ? I should be home now working on my stuff." We have no idea how we got into it that deep or got that involved in it.

    One example I can think of off the top of my head is when my ENTJ friend is holding one of his meetings (I've discussed this on the forums before), he will text people and say, "We look forward to seeing you at the meeting tonight."

    Because I know him so well, I know that this text message means:
    (a) I'm expected to make this a priority. He is politely saying, "Be there!"
    (b) He wants a text response (presumably *right now*) letting him know if I will or will not be there so that he can count me in or out.

    To me, the first few times I got this message it seemed manipulative to me because I recognized right away that there was much more to his message than just simply, "We look forward to seeing you there." He wouldn't bother texting people if it was just to say "See you tonight!" One time I didn't respond and didn't go to the meeting and I got a phone call later that night asking if I had received his text message and what had caused me to miss the meeting.

    To me, his text was just a statement: Look forward to seeing you there! And so I treated it as such. I didn't respond. I knew there was more to his text, but, if he's laying ground rules, I'm going to lay some also. If you want to ask if I'm going to be there, then just ask it. Don't go through the side door. Knock on the front door and you'll get the answer you're looking for.

    If you want to ask if I'm going to be make it and if you want to emphasize the importance of the meeting, then just come out and say it. Say, "This meeting is crucial to what we are doing, we are going to cover some very important bases in this meeting, and I need you to be there. Are you going to make it?" Then I'd respond with either, "Yeah, I'll be there." Or, "No, I won't be there. Deal with it ()."

    But, the way he phrases it is so subtle. People know him and how serious he is about this, so when they get that text, they cringe. Instead of thinking, "Oh, he's looking forward to seeing me. I'm an important piece of this puzzle", they are really thinking, "Darn. I really have other things going on tonight but I know he's relentless and if I don't show up, he'll call me tonight like a used car salesman and, blah, blah, blah." So, people just end up going to the meeting in order to keep the peace and stay on his good side.

    That's how it feels like manipulation. He's totally and completely nice about it, but if you don't show up to the "unpaid" meeting and put your energy behind this cause, you know you're going to hear about it from him. And so people just conform in order to avoid the trouble/headache of having to explain why they didn't want to come. Or that they'd rather watch their favorite sitcom than attend his meeting.

    I know him, so I know his intentions are good in getting people involved, it's just "how" he does it sometimes. Sometimes I just have to be direct with him and say, "Aint makin' it tonight! Got too much going on. Have to catch up with you next week." And he'll say, "Hmmm, OK. What do you have going on?" I sometimes feel like saying, "Absolutely nothing. I just don't want to go to the meeting tonight." But, I somehow intuit that this might somehow hurt his feelings somewhere deep down in a place that nobody has seen before because he cares so much about the cause.
    An ENTJ wouldn't hold a meeting for the sake of it. If its some sort of charitable organization or something that is not mandatory - I wouldn't send out texts slyly mandating people to show up.

    The only time I would send a message like that would be in a corporate setting. When there's money involved, and when I'm at the center of it. When there is no option, and when they must show up - or compromise the good standing of their position/job.

    This guy sounds more like an ESTJ - I think. Or ENTP, I don't know.

    An ENTJ would send out a text giving people a good valid REASON to show up at a meeting.

    If its a charitable/non-profit club or meeting about personal finances my message would be:

    "Do you see the stack of bills piling up right before you? It wont get thinner until you do something about it. Come over and you'll walk out a human-bulldozer"

    ETC...

    ENTJ persuade and inspire, they don't nonchalantly mandate.

  5. #105
    figsfiggyfigs
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyTick View Post
    An ENTJ wouldn't hold a meeting for the sake of it. If its some sort of charitable organization or something that is not mandatory - I wouldn't send out texts slyly mandating people to show up.

    The only time I would send a message like that would be in a corporate setting. When there's money involved, and when I'm at the center of it. When there is no option, and when they must show up - or compromise the good standing of their position/job.

    This guy sounds more like an ESTJ - I think. Or ENTP, I don't know.

    An ENTJ would send out a text giving people a good valid REASON to show up at a meeting.

    If its a charitable/non-profit club or meeting about personal finances my message would be:

    "Do you see the stack of bills piling up right before you? It wont get thinner until you do something about it. Come over and you'll walk out a human-bulldozer"

    ETC...

    ENTJ persuade and inspire, they don't nonchalantly mandate.

    Agree. In this case, the ENTJ would be making a very persuasive case.

    the person in INTPness's case is sly and a little manipulative about it.

  6. #106
    Senior Member man's Avatar
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    ya entj is pretty d*rn manipulative
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #107
    Giggity Vie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyTick View Post
    OHH MY!!! LOL

    I was over my parents house a few days ago and they were actually the first people I asked!

    I asked them about my childhood ...

    My mom said I was the cutest cold-hearted baby she'd ever seen.

    My dad said I was always full of shit when I was a teenager, but somehow I had this supernatural skill to extract anything I ever wanted out of them.

    He said I'd probably end up being a shrewd businessman one day and I'd be reaping millions of dollars but I'd never be able to experience the company of good friends or true love.

    And I though I was a good boy that never did anything wrong!

    I never though of myself being manipulative, just extremely persuasive.

    Do you ENTJs out there think likewise? Are your persuasion and debating skills viewed by others as a manipulation tactic?

    I also asked my parents.
    My grandmother said that I was the cutest baby ever, always smiling. She said she forgot that I had teeth as of late. She is under the delusion that I was a bubbly child though.

    My dad told me that I was a slippery, calculating individual. He said it with a smile though...

    My best friend also said I was "persuasive" but could see how others think it to be manipulative. I don't mean to manipulate as that entails being deceiving, and to me nothing is worse than lying to someone. But I have been known to use knowledge against people in order to get what I want.

    This is especially regarding emotions. When I am attempting to get something out of someone, I will find out everything I can from that person. How they feel, what they think, their patterns in behavior. I use this to protect myself and in the end, protect my relationship with them (or in some instances, destroy).

    I watch people and I see how they react and act and then use that to steer them in the right direction. I don't do it to hurt them, but to get the ball moving.

  8. #108
    Senior Member MoneyTick's Avatar
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    When I am attempting to get something out of someone, I will find out everything I can from that person. How they feel, what they think, their patterns in behavior. I use this to protect myself and in the end, protect my relationship with them (or in some instances, destroy).

    I watch people and I see how they react and act and then use that to steer them in the right direction. I don't do it to hurt them, but to get the ball moving.
    WOW ... This place is really full of surprises!

    This is the exact reason I joined the forum (and probably why so many ENTJs like you are so active here).

    There cant be any other method in psychology better than the MBTI to learn almost everything about anyone in a flash.

    I was SHOCKED the day I nonchalantly took the test and read how the description matched my lifestyle and personality so precisely that it was even scary.

    When I meet someone - I start calculating them. I use the MBTI and go letter by letter, observing their behavior. Seeing if they're E or I, S/N, T/F, etc...

    Then I pretty much know exactly how the person is going to react to me. I know exactly how they feel and think. One acquaintance of mine got really freaked out as I told him his life's story and how he feels at the moment. Just by using basic psychology.

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