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  1. #21
    Senior Member THEANO's Avatar
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    I've heard it (the original statement, not that I am vulgar and acting on ephemeral impulses due to my 'NF' bend), and also "you are overthinking everything"

  2. #22
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    "Fyodor Pavlovich learned of his wife's death when he was drunk; it was said that he ran out into the street with his hands raised to heaven in joy, shouting : 'Lord, now lettest thou thy servant..' :* others say he wept convulsively like a child, so much so that, despite all the revulsion he aroused, he was pitiful to behold. Very probably, both accounts are true--that is, he rejoiced in his liberation and shed tears for his liberator at one and the same time. In most cases, people, even evil-doers, are much simpler and more naive than we generally suppose. And the same is true for you and me." Fyodor Dostoevsky, Brothers Karamazov.



    Human behavior used to befuddle me, and I did overthink it.

    I thought human behavior was very complex!

    But recently I realized that people with complex motivations tend to be logical, as one needs to be logical to devise anything complex. Those were not the people who confused me the most as their behavior was very consistent with their ostensible principles as well as easy to understand to an outsider observer. When it was not easy, they were willing and able to explain their behavior.

    The illogical people, mostly NFs who confused me the most. Recently I realized there is nothing complex to it, just vulgar people acting out on their ephemeral impulses and passions, and the thoughts behind them are crude and simplistic. Their behavior is exactly what it appears to be, no need to devote much thought to it.
    Your excerpt made me want to read more. Nice post.

    NFs apply logic it is just not easilly understood by you. There is in fact is a reason to all that anyone does.

    Your use of the word vulgar causes me to need a defiinition for its context. Repulsion as the word vulgar suggests is subjective not objective.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    How many times have you been told this?

    How many times was it true?

    Differentiate circumstanses please.
    I'm usually aware of when this happens and I keep those thoughts to myself.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Your excerpt made me want to read more. Nice post.

    NFs apply logic it is just not easilly understood by you. There is in fact is a reason to all that anyone does.

    Your use of the word vulgar causes me to need a defiinition for its context. Repulsion as the word vulgar suggests is subjective not objective.
    He has a vendetta against NFs. Isn't that obvious? He spews that junk all over the forum.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #25
    Senior Member Simplexity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    He has a vendetta against NFs. Isn't that obvious? He spews that junk all over the forum.
    Junk, I actually find it fascinating. An interesting case study in fabrication, there is a lot to be learned by observing his posts. I'll leave it up to you to interpret what I meant. In fact I would even go so far as to say they encapsulate a lot of issues in one succinct verbose passage.
    My cold, snide, intellectual life is just a veneer, behind which lies the plywood of loneliness.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nonsensical's Avatar
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    One of my close friends, an ENTP, who, though, doesn't have the greatest commitment to school, is really like this. He's in my math class, and our teacher is a very strong Sensing type, it's clear. My friend will hear something, and he will start to argue with her, and he will really dig deap into something, and get all confused, and then give up.

    Bottom line is, that he looks wayyy too far into these sort of things, and is clearly a strong ENTP. Furthermore, I find this trait in many NTs.
    Is it that by its indefiniteness it shadows forth the heartless voids and immensities of the universe, and thus stabs us from behind with the thought of annihilation, when beholding the white depths of the milky way?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Typology's Avatar
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    Haha. I overthink EVERYTHING. Doesn't matter. Could be what I'm having for dinner, social situations, school work you name it. Any time I'm not doing anything, my head's usually somewhere up in the clouds, assessing whatever I did that day, or am going to do. Also, I can carry on a bullshit story longer than anybody I know, that usually doesn't end well though...

  8. #28
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Your excerpt made me want to read more. Nice post.

    NFs apply logic it is just not easilly understood by you. There is in fact is a reason to all that anyone does.

    Your use of the word vulgar causes me to need a defiinition for its context. Repulsion as the word vulgar suggests is subjective not objective.
    It is true that NFs use logic, but we should note that we tend to use our lower functions less frequently and with less proficiency than our higher function. For example, I use Sensing less than a Sensing type. I am not focused on concrete entities as frequently as they are, and when I am focusing on what can be observed with the senses, I do not recollect what I observe nearly as easily as they do.

    The same can be said regarding the relationship NFs have to logic in comparison to the relationship a Thinking type has to logic. They abuse logic. I cannot understand their reasoning because the following is the case; if we were to express their arguments in the language of symbolic logic, many of them would have the form of P, therefore not P, or quite simply A, therefore B, as well as many other absurdities.

    In other words, I do not understand their arguments not because their arguments are legitimate and I have failed to understand them, but because they are illegitimate. In other words, they are not saying anything, they are meaningless in the strictest sense of the word.

    Regarding the word vulgar, it is indeed the case that in the most conventional sense of the term it is a value judgment, as it means 'of lower, or inappropriate taste'. However, I use it as synonymous with the word simple or crude. I call what is crude vulgar or of 'lower taste' because in order to be in tune with the finer aspects of our nature (such as those represented by the sciences, philosophy and the fine arts) one needs to be a complex thinker. Quite simply because one cannot attain a vision of such complex things without first having thought them through. Yet if one is not competent at logical reasoning, one cannot do this, therefore one must rely on his feelings or instincts. Inevitably, things that this person would favor, (or have a taste for) would be simple, or crude, which I use as synonymous with vulgar.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  9. #29
    Senior Member THEANO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Regarding the word vulgar, it is indeed the case that in the most conventional sense of the term it is a value judgment, as it means 'of lower, or inappropriate taste'. However, I use it as synonymous with the word simple or crude. I call what is crude vulgar or of 'lower taste' because in order to be in tune with the finer aspects of our nature (such as those represented by the sciences, philosophy and the fine arts) one needs to be a complex thinker. Quite simply because one cannot attain a vision of such complex things without first having thought them through. Yet if one is not competent at logical reasoning, one cannot do this, therefore one must rely on his feelings or instincts. Inevitably, things that this person would favor, (or have a taste for) would be simple, or crude, which I use as synonymous with vulgar.
    I tried to understand the aversion evoked by some of BW's posts by following several of the threads all the way to the beginning.
    The outcome of the exercise made me believe the following (which, if this runs true to the previous pattern will either be ignored with implied disdain, or arrogantly dismissed with a few (or many) carefully chosen barbed words that will include self-quotes of some technical terminology).
    1) He has "dated an NF for almost a year".
    2) It obviously was not the kind of experience that brought him unbridled joy and satisfaction.
    2) Words have incredible power to evoke thoughts and emotions. BW seems to have an extraordinary facility to use vocabulary to satisfy some deep-seated (perhaps unconscious) need to make himself believe that a certain group of people is unworthy of his regard.
    3) This group seems to include only 'F' individuals
    4) He chooses his vocabulary with the precision of a surgeon to evoke negative emotions in the group that seems to be his target. Hell, even before any NFs offer rebuttals to his 'logic', they are defeated because they were made to appear a lesser person by his labels - labels that put them on defensive before they even offer their views.
    "Vulgar", "crude", "abusing" logic", "illegitimate" arguments. Those words, in my opinion, are used deliberately to debase and hurt, while allowing the user to hide behind their less common meanings that can be run up a flagpole for anyone reacting negatively to them....to once again score a point for 'logic vs gut reaction'

    I do not believe an INTP would allow his/her feelings to guide their action and vocabulary choices to this extent. I believe that BW, as much as he'd love to be one of those lofty INTP's he so greatly admires, is actually a member of one of us, the 'vulgar, crude' groups he tries so desperately disassociate himself from. I believe that is also the reason he rarely just expresses his thoughts and beliefs without resorting to quotations and technicalities. It's always easier to hide behind others' words

    Ah, yeah, just my opinion...after all, look at the topic of this thread
    All I know for sure is that I come from a long line of dead people

  10. #30
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    How many times have you been told this?

    How many times was it true?

    Differentiate circumstanses please.
    I do this when I believe someone is knowingly ignoring or insulting me somehow. Then my ENFJ friend tells me that I read too much into other peoples' actions. I think that it's because his Feeling functions are much cooler and more advanced than mine.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

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