[NT] Hitler...intj or entj?

[Sniffles]

How often did Hitler denounce the masses as simpletons who lack critical thinking ability?

I'm only aware of the one quote. Hitler by and large was a populist and sought to appeal to the masses.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I'm only aware of the one quote. Hitler by and large was a populist and sought to appeal to the masses.

He was highly critical of the masses, which is why he logically and correctly concluded that the surest way to appeal to the mob was by utilizing rhetoric; this is why he stressed the importance of propaganda. His actions and conclusions were based on an NT understanding of the world.

"The broad masses of a population are more amenable to the appeal of rhetoric than to any other force."
--Mein Kampf

As for his populism, I do not see why this is beyond the ideological tendencies of an INTJ. I am an INTJ and a populist. However, he was only populist in so far as he attempted to appeal to the working class, but his core ideology was highly elitist. His personality was that of an INTJ with a powerful Fi seeking to pragmatically influence the world. His National Socialist Party was highly organized and disciplined, which is what one would expect from an XNTJ leader. I have never met an INFJ who was as militant and discriminate as Hitler and his associates.

It is impossible for Hitler to have been anything other than an INTJ.

"Those who want to live, let them fight, and those who do not want to fight in this world of eternal struggle do not deserve to live."
--Mein Kampf

No INFJ I have ever met would incorporate anything such as the above quote into their philosophy--honestly, at least. Pathological INFJs tend to be insidious, not particularly aggressive.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Hitler was a walking contradiction, a hypocrite, and a liar. You can't just look at what he says at face value and determine his personality type from that.

This is nothing more than emotionally charged bunk. Prove that your statement has a basis in anything other than the propaganda you read in your textbooks or refrain from commenting on the matter.

 

[Lex Talionis]

If he were an INTJ he would deductively reason that it is illogical to invade on so many fronts. I'm going out on a limb by saying that he has a bit of an SJ sway, unless he had a hidden NT-like agenda. We don't know the facts for certain.

This is nonsensical and denotes poor reasoning on your part. How does core ideology relate to deductive logic? Hitler battled for his beliefs, which is irrational regardless of type. All of our motives are ultimately irrational. There is absolutely no manner of quantifying your assertion in order to derive anything meaningful from it.

 

[Perch420]

I still maintain that he was an INFJ, because where his drive came from was his desire to be a sort of savior of the German people. This is just one somewhat arbitrary example, but he wanted to build free resorts for every German family. I don't know of any INTJ who would do that aside from a means to an end; for Hitler, caring and helping the German people was the end. He was driven by emotions, both love and hatred, more than by analytical reasoning; another example, he was a vegetarian and tried to ban vivisection and put restrictions on hunting. Again, I don't know of any INTJ who would do this as an end and not as a means to an end.

 

[Epiphany]

This is nothing more than emotionally charged bunk. Prove that your statement has a basis in anything other than the propaganda you read in your textbooks or refrain from commenting on the matter.

I'm sure most of the literature written about Hitler pales in comparison to your extensive knowledge on the subject, especially anything that doesn't align with your opinions. I'm curious, where have you derived your great wisdom from? Go ahead and cite sources and give an explanation of why they are more valid than "the propaganda in my text books" as you call it. For future reference, repeatedly stating your opinion in a forceful manner and referring to everyone else's as bunk doesn't qualify as evidence that you're correct. I'm sure it convinces some people though, especially if you wave your arms frantically when you speak.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I still maintain that he was an INFJ, because where his drive came from was his desire to be a sort of savior of the German people. This is just one somewhat arbitrary example, but he wanted to build free resorts for every German family. I don't know of any INTJ who would do that aside from a means to an end; for Hitler, caring and helping the German people was the end. He was driven by compassion for the German people more than analytical reasoning; for example, he was a vegetarian and tried to ban vivisection and put restrictions on hunting. Again, I don't know of any INTJ who would do this as an end and not as a means to an end.

Hitler's ultimate vision was that of a strong and unified Germany. He believed that for this to occur the German people would be required to develop a sense of racial unity and acknowledge parasitical elements that sought to divide society, such as Jews, criminals, etc. By no means is such a notion uncharacteristic of INTJs; if anything, it is the logical production of a powerful Fi (abstract value system) and NiTe (logical realization of the abstract value system).

INTJs are members of society, and as such, they too have a vested interest in fostering a healthy and productive society.

As I have previously stated, INFJs tend to be moralists and thus attempt to bestow a value system unto society. INTJs, on the other hand, tend to be visionaries who wish to shape society in accordance to their own social outlook, which is ultimately based upon an irrational value system because all value systems are ultimately irrational.

 

[Onceajoan]

...He was one of the two. We can rule out "feeler"......

ouch... inappropriate?

I'm sure it convinces some people though, especially if you wave your arms frantically when you speak.

Hahahaha! That's good!

The truth I really don't think it's appropriate to try and guess or profess to definitely "know" what Hitler's type is (other than horrible and despicable). To try to associate him with any particular type is degrading. It's also insensitive of the OP given we have all different types represented in this forum.

INTJs often like to think they know with certainty even when they don't. It can be an exhausting waste of time. Give up the idea that you know everything and you'll open up a whole world of possibilities (been INTJ, done INTJ and done with INTJ). Given all the evidence in the world, you still don't know nor can you. There is no objectivity possible - your own biases and antipathies play themselves out, don't you think? It's a possibility...

 

[Lex Talionis]

I'm sure most of the literature written about Hitler pales in comparison to your extensive knowledge on the subject, especially anything that doesn't align with your opinions. I'm curious, where have you derived your great wisdom from? Go ahead and cite sources and give an explanation of why they are more valid than "the propaganda in my text books" as you call it. For future reference, repeatedly stating your opinion in a forceful manner and referring to everyone else's as bunk doesn't qualify as evidence that you're correct. I'm sure it convinces some people though, especially if you wave your arms frantically when you speak.

My sources are Hitler's speeches, writings, and descriptions of him by his contemporaries. I have simply combined this with my understanding of MBTI to come to the final conclusion that it is impossible for Hitler to have been anything other than an INTJ.

Although Hitler's OSS (Office of Strategic Services) psychological profile is to be regarded with suspicion due to its palpable bias, I would also be justified in deriving my conclusion based upon its analysis.

 

[highlander]

INTJs, on the other hand, tend to be visionaries who wish to shape society in accordance to their own social outlook, which is ultimately based upon an irrational value system because all value systems are ultimately irrational.

I wonder how many INTJs are dynamic and persuasive public speakers. There are some I can think of but it seems less common for an INTJ to be so than an NFJ. It's not a real argument but one bit of data.

 

[Perch420]

You're not addressing the fact that his most powerful desire was to be loved by the German people. This is a very Ni-Fe thing to do. Everything he did leads us to derive this conclusion. His style of public speaking was highly passionate, not calm and logically linear like that of an INTJ (This is anecdotal, but the point I'm making still applies.) Here's an example of an INTJ speaking, in this case Stalin, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjcGN2Yx-bI and an INFJ, Hitler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q-6H4xOUrs .

 

[Perch420]

If you listen to his speeches, he has the ability to "sync" with the crowd's emotions and "ride" them for maximum effect. Since Fe is basically understanding of others' thought process, we can conclude that his Fe was very powerful, which means either ENFJ or INFJ. Since his Ni was even more powerful than his Fe, the only logical conclusion that we can come to is that Hitler was an INFJ.

 

[Perch420]

I think your outlook towards the topic is somewhat biased since it seems like you'd rather have him be of your type than that of someone else. It's important to be objective in such a situation.

 

[Epiphany]

My sources are Hitler's speeches, writings, and descriptions of him by his contemporaries. I have simply combined this with my understanding of MBTI to come to the final conclusion that it is impossible for Hitler to have been anything other than an INTJ.

Although Hitler's OSS (Office of Strategic Services) psychological profile is to be regarded with suspicion due to its palpable bias, I would also be justified in deriving my conclusion based upon its analysis.

And your own analysis of these sources is more valid than those with PhD's who've studied the same sources and analyzed the psychological profile of Hitler? That's incredibly arrogant. You should write your own book on the subject and use that for citations.

 

[Lex Talionis]

You're not addressing the fact that his most powerful desire was to be loved by the German people. This is a very Ni-Fe thing to do. Everything he did leads us to derive this conclusion. His style of public speaking was highly passionate, not calm and logically linear like that of an INTJ (This is anecdotal, but the point I'm making still applies.) Here's an example of an INTJ speaking, in this case Stalin, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjcGN2Yx-bI and an INFJ, Hitler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q-6H4xOUrs .

That is due to the fact that Hitler's rhetorical skills were highly sophisticated, whereas Stalin was a mediocre thinker and speaker, not to mention that Hitler's national socialist philosophy sought to unify society based upon race and culture while Stalin's communist beliefs were based upon little more than materialism. INTJs are capable of exuding profound passion when harboring deeply set beliefs.

Stalin was a foreign "comrade" who saw himself as the leader of a destitute nation and living in accordance with a bankrupt philosophy; Hitler identified himself as a member of a people with limitless potential whose glory he wished to rebuild, much like Napoleon Bonaparte (INTJ), Julius Caesar (INTJ), Frederick the Great (INTJ), and other INTJ visionaries.

 

[Onceajoan]

My sources are Hitler's speeches, writings, and descriptions of him by his contemporaries. I have simply combined this with my understanding of MBTI to come to the final conclusion that it is impossible for Hitler to have been anything other than an INTJ.

Although Hitler's OSS (Office of Strategic Services) psychological profile is to be regarded with suspicion due to its palpable bias, I would also be justified in deriving my conclusion based upon its analysis.

Whatever... Enough said. Succinctly enough.

 

[Perch420]

Stalin was not a mediocre thinker at all. He managed to almost singlehandedly transform a third world nation into a superpower in little less than 30 years. His contribution to linguistics was also quite significant.

Hitler was an INFJ and your reasoning of him being an INTJ is based off of you wanting him to be your own type, which isn't very good logic last time I checked.

 

[Epiphany]

ouch... inappropriate?



Hahahaha! That's good!

The truth I really don't think it's appropriate to try and guess or profess to definitely "know" what Hitler's type is (other than horrible and despicable). To try to associate him with any particular type is degrading. It's also insensitive of the OP given we have all different types represented in this forum.

INTJs often like to think they know with certainty even when they don't. It can be an exhausting waste of time. Give up the idea that you know everything and you'll open up a whole world of possibilities (been INTJ, done INTJ and done with INTJ). Given all the evidence in the world, you still don't know nor can you. There is no objectivity possible - your own biases and antipathies play themselves out, don't you think? It's a possibility...

I try to refrain from stating definitively that a person is a certain type. For one, MBTI is theoretical. We can't possibly know someone's psyche through and through. I don't see anything wrong with speculating, but I find it hard to take anyone seriously who claims to have all the answers.

 

[Lex Talionis]

I think your outlook towards the topic is somewhat biased since it seems like you'd rather have him be of your type than that of someone else. It's important to be objective in such a situation.

I do not "rather have" him be my type; I simply do not see it possible to reasonably justify the claims to the contrary. The reasoning so far applied to Hitler's personality has been devoid of critical thinking and has relied upon glaring mental acrobatics. Hitler having been an impassioned INTJ is far more likely than him having been any other type based upon faulty generalizations of specific type functions — how else does one begin to justify ridiculous notions such as him having been an ISFP?

 

[Lex Talionis]

Stalin was not a mediocre thinker at all. He managed to almost singlehandedly transform a third world nation into a superpower in little less than 30 years. His contribution to linguistics was also quite significant.

Hitler was an INFJ and your reasoning of him being an INTJ is based off of you wanting him to be your own type, which isn't very good logic last time I checked.

Most socialists (myself included) would agree that Stalin's state capitalism was an undesirable system and, for the most part, a failure. His poor attempts at industrialization were based upon rapid proletarianization of the majority serf population, which more often than not included forced labor. It is impossible to compare such a mediocrity as Stalin to such a vigorous personality as Hitler.

Hitler provided a philosophy on life; Stalin simply continued the vanguardism propounded by Lenin during his later years, which was to establish state capitalism as a transitory system toward communism.