[NT] Hitler...intj or entj?

[guesswho]

delusional=/= N



Maybe we should make a separate type for him.

The biggest killer of all times type

 

[Nicodemus]

It's because of War of the Worlds, isn't it? You just can't trust Welles.

Other things he tells in that interview have turned out to be lies. The Hitler story is just harder to debunk.

 

[Sniffles]

People often mistake his stage performance for his personality, which was a facade.

In private he was far more soft-spoken, as this private recording shows:
[youtube="t_Xf3l7RjBk"]Hitler's private voice[/youtube]
Here's a decent translation I've found of what he's saying.

Hitler: ...a very serious danger, perhaps the most serious one - it's whole extent we can only now judge. We did not ourselves understand - just how strong this state [the USSR] was armed.

Mannerheim: No, we hadn't thought of this.

Hitler: No, I too, no.

Mannerheim: During the Winter War - during the Winter War we had not even thought of this. Of course...

Hitler: (Interrupting) Yes.

Mannerheim: But so, how they - in reality - and now there is no doubt all they had - what they had in their stocks!

Hitler: Absolutely, This is - they had the most immense armaments that, uh, people could imagine. Well - if somebody had told me that a country - with...(Hitler is interrupted by the sound of a door opening and closing.) If somebody had told me a nation could start with 35,000 tanks, then I'd have said: "You are crazy!"

Mannerheim: Thirty-five?

Hitler: Thirty-five thousand tanks.

Another Voice In Background: Thirty-five thousand! Yes!

Hitler: We have destroyed - right now - more than 34,000 tanks. If someone had told me this, I'd have said: "You!" If you are one of my generals had stated that any nation has 35,000 tanks I'd have said: "You, my good sir, you see everything twice or ten times. You are crazy; you see ghosts." This I would have deemed possible. I told you earlier we found factories, one of them at Kramatorskaja, for example, Two years ago there were just a couple hundred [tanks]. We didn't know anything. Today, there is a tank plant, where - during the first shift a little more than 30,000, and 'round the clock a little more than 60,000, workers would have labored - a single tank plant! A gigantic factory! Masses of workers who certainly, lived like animals and...

Another Voice In Background: (Interrupting) In the Donets area?

Hitler: In the Donets area. (Background noises from the rattling of cups and plates over the exchange.)

Mannerheim: Well, if you keep in mind they had almost 20 years, almost 25 years of - freedom to arm themselves...

Hitler: (Interrupting quietly) It was unbelievable.

Mannerheim: And everything - everything spent on armament.

Hitler: Only on armament.

Mannerheim: Only on armament!

Hitler: (Sighs) Only - well, it is - as I told your president [Ryte] before - I had no idea of it. If I had an idea - then I would have been even more difficult for me, but I would have taken the decision [to invade] anyhow, because - there was no other possibility. It was - certain, already in the winter of '39/ '40, that the war had to begin. I had only this nightmare - but there is even more! Because a war on two fronts - would have been impossible - that would have broken us. Today, we see more clearly - than we saw at that time - it would have broken us. And my whole - I originally wanted to - already in the fall of '39 I wanted to conduct the campaign in the west - on the continuously bad weather we experienced hindered us.

Our whole armament - you know, was - is a pure good weather armament. It is very capable, very good, but it is unfortunately just a good-weather armament. We have seen this in the war. Our weapons naturally were made for the west, and we all thought, and this was true 'till that time, uh, it was the opinion from the earliest times: you cannot wage war in winter. And we too, have, the German tanks, they weren't tested, for example, to prepare them for winter war. Instead we conducted trials to prove it was impossible to wage war in winter. That is a different starting point [than the Soviet's]. In the fall of 1939 we always faced the question. I desperately wanted to attack, and I firmly believed we could finish France in six weeks.

However, we faced the question of whether we could move at all - it was raining continuously. And I know the French area myself very well and I too could not ignore the opinions, of many of my generals that, we - probably - would not have had the élan, that our tank arm would not have been, effective, that our air force could not been effective from our airfields because of the rain.

I know northern France myself. You know, I served in the Great War for four years. And - so the delay happened. If I had in '39 eliminated France, then world history would have changed. But I had to wait 'till 1940, and unfortunately it wasn't possible before May. Only on the 10th of May was the first nice day - and on the 10th of May I immediately attacked. I gave the order to attack on the 10th on the 8th. And - then we had to, conduct this huge transfer of our divisions from the west to the east.

First the occupation of - then we had the task in Norway - at the same time we faced - I can frankly say it today - a grave misfortune, namely the - weakness of, Italy. Because of - first, the situation in North Africa, then, second, because of the situation in Albania and Greece - a very big misfortune. We had to help. This meant for us, with one small stoke, first - the splitting of our air force, splitting our tank force, while at the same time we were preparing, the, tank arm in the east. We had to hand over - with one stroke, two divisions, two whole divisions and a third was then added - and we had to replace continuous, very severe, losses there. It was - bloody fighting in the desert.

This all naturally was inevitable, you see. I had a conversation with Molotov [Soviet Minister] at that time, and it was absolutely certain that Molotov departed with the decision to begin a war, and I dismissed the decision to begin a war, and I dismissed him with the decision to - impossible, to forestall him. There was - this was the only - because the demands that man brought up were clearly aimed to rule, Europe in the end. (Practically whispering here.) Then I have him - not publicly...(fades out).

Already in the fall of 1940 we continuously faced the question, uh: shall we, consider a break up [in relations with the USSR]? At that time, I advised the Finnish government, to - negotiate and, to gain time and, to act dilatory in this matter - because I always feared - that Russia suddenly would attack Romania in the late fall - and occupy the petroleum wells, and we would have not been ready in the late fall of 1940. If Russia indeed had taken Romanian petroleum wells, than Germany would have been lost. It would have required - just 60 Russian divisions to handle that matter.

In Romania we had of course - at that time - no major units. The Romanian government had turned to us only recently - and what we did have there was laughable. They only had to occupy the petroleum wells. Of course, with our weapons I could not start a, war in September or October. That was out of the question. Naturally, the transfer to the east wasn't that far advanced yet. Of course, the units first had to reconsolidate in the west. First the armaments had to be taken care of because we too had - yes, we also had losses in our campaign in the west. It would have been impossible to attack - before the spring of 19, 41. And if the Russians at that time - in the fall of 1940 - had occupied Romania - taken the petroleum wells, then we would have been, helpless in 1941.

Another Voice In Background: Without petroleum...

Hitler: (Interrupting) We had huge German production: however, the demands of the air force, our Panzer divisions - they are really huge. It is level of consumption that surpasses the imagination. And without the addition of four to five million tons of Romanian petroleum, we could not have fought the war - and would have had to let it be - and that was my big worry. Therefore I aspired to, bridge the period of negotiations 'till we would be strong enough to, counter those extortive demands [from Moscow] because - those demands were simply naked extortion's. They were extortion's. The Russians knew we were tied up in the west. They could really extort everything from us. Only when Molotov visited - then - I told him frankly that the demands, their numerous demands, weren't acceptable to us. With that the negotiations came to an abrupt end that same morning.

There were four topics. The one topic that, involved Finland was, the, freedom to protect themselves from the Finnish threat, he said. [I said] You do not want to tell me Finland threatens you! But he said: "In Finland it is - they who take action against the, friends, of the Soviet Union. They would [take action] against [our] society, against us - they would continuously, persecute us and, a great power cannot be threatened by a minor country."

I said: "Your, existence isn't threatened by Finland! That is, you don't mean to tell me..."

Mannerheim: (Interrupting) Laughable!

Hitler: "...that your existence is threatened by Finland?" Well [he said] there was a moral - threat being made against a great power, and what Finland was doing, that was a moral - a threat to their moral existence. Then I told him we would not accept a further war in the Baltic area as passive spectators. In reply he asked me how we viewed our position in, Romania. You know, we had given them a guarantee. [He wanted to know] if that guarantee was directed against Russia as well? And that time I told him: "I don't think it is directed at you, because I don't think you have the intention of attacking Romania. You have always stated that Bessarabia is yours, but that you have - never stated that you want to attack Romania!"

"Yes," he told me, but he wanted to know more precisely if this guarantee...(A door opens and the recording ends.)

 

[xisnotx]

In my very undeducated opinion...he was Fi rather than Fe. I think Fe would try to maximize happiness among all things. I think Fe wants to have everybody (and everything) happy (or at least content). Even if Fe saw something as inferior (like Jews..or as a present day example..dogs) it would still care for the well being of that thing. It would work to maximize happiness of everything regardless of rank.

Fi..I think..is more likely to think that a certain persons happiness (or a certain group of peoples happiness) is more important.

so..if he is Fi-Te..I think it would be more likely he would be Te dominant. He was focused on creating an amazingly efficient system. He wasn't focused on maximizing his own (or his peoples) happiness..he probably thought that there would be plenty of time to enjoy those feelings later.

as for E-I..I think he was a E. I don't think I's care about the world enough to actually go to the extremes he went through.

which leaves extj. which means he either had inferior Ne or Se. I hesitate to say whether he was Ni-Se or Si-Ne...although I lean toward Ni-Se, because ultimately he was concerned with the future. He wasn't trying to protect the past (SJ) but rather change it.

I conclude entj.

 

[AOA]

Hitler (like Gaddafi) was ISFJ, in my opinion. ISFJ's tend to have a *rich* inner world of systematic data, which for Hitler was toward the government of the people. He strongly believed that he knew best the welfare of the German people, because he could easily reflect that ideology from that very inner world. He also had poor strategic analysis of warfare - having underestimated the Russian assault on various occasions, which cost him his panzer units greatly; hence he could not have been INTJ (the most likely N we've concluded so far).

 

[Perch420]

Obviously INFJ. Wanted to be the savior of his people (Germans), had a Jesus complex. Lots of Ni. He's almost the archetypal INFJ gone wrong. If you think he's anything but an INFJ, you have to read more about him since you don't know shit about the man.

 

[guesswho]

the hell with hitler...facebook just got an oscar :|

 

[Cat_Cloud]

I say ISFJ. He was very orderly, but very insecure, introverted, and angry/damaged. He seemed to be strongly convinced on what was right. He relied on his own experiences (With the Russian front, Jews) to decide how he would make decisions.

EDIT:
I say he's untypeable- too many personal issues. Abuse distorted him to the point where he doesn't fit neatly into any single catagory. We can't simply judge him by what he did, since he was helped in creating Nazi Germany and it doesn't neccisarily refelct his own life styles.

 

[Hive]

What do you mean ISFJ? He loathed administrative and routine work. The Third Reich was his unshakable vision sprung out of Ni.

 

[Epiphany]

What do you mean ISFJ? He loathed administrative and routine work.

This I gathered from reading too. He often left the mundane details to others.

In private he was far more soft-spoken, as this private recording shows:

Something about his facial expressions when he's not standing on a stage yelling seems very NF and dreamlike, though his dreams were rooted in anger and feelings of victimization.

 

[Athenian200]

In private he was far more soft-spoken, as this private recording shows:
[youtube="t_Xf3l7RjBk"]Hitler's private voice[/youtube]
Here's a decent translation I've found of what he's saying.

Wow. Hitler was right about the Russians! He saw what they were up to. It looks like he was also one of the first people to have to deal with fuel issues relating to petroleum shortages. A problem that still plagues nations today.

I'm getting kind of nervous now. I used to be so certain that it would be a good idea to go back in time and prevent Hitler from taking power. But now... I can see all kinds of things that could have been worse if he hadn't been there. Like Russia conquering Europe, and America remaining fairly weak, impotent, and economically unstable because we didn't get involved in the war. Although, granted, it's possible that we would have joined the war against the Russians and history would have gone similarly... the Russians might have been too strong by the time we got involved. Or perhaps communism or fascism would have taken root in every country on its own eventually, had it not happened.

There are a lot of things to think about here... how it's easy for a person to be very human and good in some ways, and very inhuman and evil in others. It should definitely teach us to be careful when judging what is necessary to protect ourselves from others. How thin the line is, between humanity and madness.

 

[Lex Talionis]

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. All the arguments to the contrary that have so far been produced on this thread are wholly unconvincing and pathetic. Need I quote passages from Mein Kampf in order to provide the necessary proof? Both his personal writings and the descriptions of him by his contemporaries are highly revealing of his INTJ personality.

 

[guesswho]

 

[Sniffles]

Need I quote passages from Mein Kampf in order to provide the necessary proof? Both his personal writings and the descriptions of him by his contemporaries are highly revealing of his INTJ personality.

Sure go ahead. I agree with you that he certainly was Ni, his own descriptions of his thought process reveals this.

 

[entropie]

Wow. Hitler was right about the Russians! He saw what they were up to. It looks like he was also one of the first people to have to deal with fuel issues relating to petroleum shortages. A problem that still plagues nations today.

I'm getting kind of nervous now. I used to be so certain that it would be a good idea to go back in time and prevent Hitler from taking power. But now... I can see all kinds of things that could have been worse if he hadn't been there. Like Russia conquering Europe, and America remaining fairly weak, impotent, and economically unstable because we didn't get involved in the war. Although, granted, it's possible that we would have joined the war against the Russians and history would have gone similarly... the Russians might have been too strong by the time we got involved. Or perhaps communism or fascism would have taken root in every country on its own eventually, had it not happened.

There are a lot of things to think about here... how it's easy for a person to be very human and good in some ways, and very inhuman and evil in others. It should definitely teach us to be careful when judging what is necessary to protect ourselves from others. How thin the line is, between humanity and madness.

Tho you have to be a bit sceptical about the text, all facts presented could be partof a ruse to win finnish support over for the own plans

 

[Perch420]

Hitler was most definitely an INTJ. All the arguments to the contrary that have so far been produced on this thread are wholly unconvincing and pathetic. Need I quote passages from Mein Kampf in order to provide the necessary proof? Both his personal writings and the descriptions of him by his contemporaries are highly revealing of his INTJ personality.

He's an INFJ.

 

[Cat_Cloud]

What do you mean ISFJ? He loathed administrative and routine work. The Third Reich was his unshakable vision sprung out of Ni.

Fine then. ISFP. (Actually, after I posted I was thinking about this and realized he couldn't be a J...) Or INFP.

 

[Lex Talionis]

He's an INFJ.

How could he have been an INFJ? INFJs tend to be moralists who wish to "enlighten" the world, not shape it according to their discriminatory vision (NiTe). How often did Hitler denounce the masses as simpletons who lack critical thinking ability? Hitler had a powerful Fi, which may result in a mistyping by the less informed, but it should be remembered that of all the rational types INTJs possess the greatest affinity to Fi.

 

[Epiphany]

How often did Hitler denounce the masses as simpletons who lack critical thinking ability?

Hitler was a walking contradiction, a hypocrite, and a liar. You can't just look at what he says at face value and determine his personality type from that.

 

[NickNaylor]

If he were an INTJ he would deductively reason that it is illogical to invade on so many fronts. I'm going out on a limb by saying that he has a bit of an SJ sway, unless he had a hidden NT-like agenda. We don't know the facts for certain.